Flexjet Union Drive Continues...

[vixin]

Well, then, we're done for. What makes you think they're going to be a lot better as union stooges than as a CAB stooges?

I dont think that. I do think that the pilots would at least have a contract that they could enforce. Rest rules that the company would have to abide by without consequences to the pilots and FA.

 

[Necromonger]

hhhmmmm

Well, it seems Cautious Belly is trying to double up his post total on this one thread.

What makes you think they're going to be a lot better as union stooges than as a CAB stooges?

It's called a CONTRACT you Idiot! Something we don't have now.

Don't you just love the: "may be waved down with FODM approval" verbiage we have now. In essence, Your held accountable for all things in the FOM. If they think you broke a rule.... You CAN get CANNED. They just change the rules as they see fit. There are memos floating around flight ops with changes we don't even know about. Voice mail might come out a week later...then in a couple of months, we get another blue sheet. How many Blue sheets have we gotten that actually help our QOL?

For your information: ROLLING REST is a reality here! We need to do something about it!

Later.

 

[Necromonger]

Nice

What is even more sad is the fact that Flex made the most recent washout a stans captain. Are you going to tell me he all of a sudden became that bad? What a joke that process is!! Half of the standards captains shouldnt have that position. The other half are like cookie boy and do it to boost egos. They just make me laugh. We have 1 or 2 fo's that should have been let go a long time ago, but for some reason they are still here. So who knows what the criteria are.

You bring up a good point. But, what you have to realize is that F.T. does not take into account Flying ability or past experience when selecting Standard Captains. (A 60 guy told me that he selected a 3 month captain in the fleet, who has little or no previous captain experience. He told me that there are lots of 60 guys who could only laugh at the selection) He selects the biggest A$$ kissers or people he thinks he can manipulate to go into those positions. (BrokeBackMalc...)
If you have a backbone, or try to stand up for what is right, he doesn't want any part of you. Every once in a while a good one slips through and gets selected. Can't win 'em all, fred.

 

[Ludicris]

I lived through the 7&2, mac&cheese, cdl, layoffs, coming into the office while the 45 was down, the special purchase of the beloved pbs, the nazi, all of it and I still love this job. I don't want it to go away, and I'm happy here.

What's cdl?

 

[netjetwife]

........Fact is that in the 5+ years I have been here I haven't received a card yet.....I don't have to prove anything, the fact that there is no union here proves my point and when that changes I'll gladly admit that I was wrong.

Frax, I civilly suggest that you, and other like-minded Flex pilots, are part of the problem. If you were handing out the cards instead of standing around waiting to be handed a card, I dare say the situation would look far more promising to you. At its basic level--the one that makes a real difference--a union is simply a group of co-workers standing up together to demand change and fair treatment. The potential has always been there, Flex pilots just haven't been exercising their right to organize. It would appear that too many of you have expected others to do the work for you. Why not try being part of the solution for a change? The more of you who organize and fight for fair wages together the quicker your victory/contract will arrive. The NJA pilots turned their careers around and are now heading in the right direction. Flt Options pilots have begun the process. Flex pilots can, too. My encouragement and regard to those willing to work for the change you deserve/have earned. NJW

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE TREATED/COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS, BUT SOME PADDLING WILL BE REQUIRED

STANDING UP FOR YOURSELVES WILL RAISE YOUR WAGES AND YOUR MORALE

 

[FraxJockey]

Frax, I civilly suggest that you, and other like-minded Flex pilots, are part of the problem. If you were handing out the cards instead of standing around waiting to be handed a card, I dare say the situation would look far more promising to you. At its basic level--the one that makes a real difference--a union is simply a group of co-workers standing up together to demand change and fair treatment. The potential has always been there, Flex pilots just haven't been exercising their right to organize. It would appear that too many of you have expected others to do the work for you. Why not try being part of the solution for a change? The more of you who organize and fight for fair wages together the quicker your victory/contract will arrive. The NJA pilots turned their careers around and are now heading in the right direction. Flt Options pilots have begun the process. Flex pilots can, too. My encouragement and regard to those willing to work for the change you deserve/have earned. NJW

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE TREATED/COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS, BUT SOME PADDLING WILL BE REQUIRED

STANDING UP FOR YOURSELVES WILL RAISE YOUR WAGES AND YOUR MORALE

Wow it took a week for you to surface. The reason I don't seek out a card is because I don't feel I need to. Furthermore if we are in such dire straights, the pilots that feel we need to organize, they should be handing them out. for example:

Netjetwife doesn't need a lobotomy and doesn't feel like she needs one, but the husband A of a person B she doesn't know, in another household, had one and it worked great for them so they feel everyone should have one. So now person B is campaigning for lobotomies. They may be good for some...heck even merited...but are not for all.

Purely hypothetical of course but you catch my drift.

My point is if the majority of pilots are satisfied with what we have (due to the fact that union drives have really had no steam in the past) why is that bad? I personally feel insulted that you are telling me I am not smart enough to think for myself and need to listen to you. Trust me if I felt we needed something I'd be the one informing the masses.

So please I would politely ask that you STFU.

Cheers


By the way, CLC (not cdl) was the crappy lodging card that we used to pay for hotels. That was a fiasco and now we are better for it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I think what se was describing is the false sense of security some feel just because there is the presence of a Union.

A Union is nothing without volunteerism. Nothing.

We had good result here because of a huge showing of volunteerism... and great leadership with a healthy dose of Unity.

Union drives? I dunno. What we had was more of a Union overhaul. The mechanism was already in place.

I see wifes comments as simply an invitation; if you want representation then seek it out. Rarely to things you need find you by themselves.

Cheerio.

 

[netjetwife]

Where in my post did I insult your intelligence? Plenty of smart people become apathetic when their efforts seem futile to them. I find it hard to believe that Flex pilots prefer their lack of a contract, sub-par wages, and inferior benefits to what other fractional pilots have. It appeared to me that the problem might be a lack of coordinated efforts. If there have been union drives in the past, then there is some interest in bettering your position.

My post was not aimed solely at you, Frax. There is an attitude that prevents progress---if others do the work you'll be happy to enjoy the benefits of a contract. Didn't you say you'd be happy to be proven wrong? I'm suggesting that if more of you were happy to work for improvement things would change. It doesn't even have to be 1108. I just don't see any better alternatives out there. If Flex pilots are able to achieve what NJ pilots have without an official union, I'll congratulate you wholeheartedly. Do make sure you get it in writing, though.

I have noticed that there are two groups that resist change: those too afraid to stand up for themselves and those too selfish to care about the rest of the group. Both will tell you everything is fine even when clearly it's not. Both groups are happy to be proven wrong. For the sake of the pilots at Flex (and their families) who aspire to industry standard wages and working conditions I hope that there are enough pilots with backbone and empathy to affect change.

As for your lobotomy analogy, I'm advocating professional compensation for professional pilots--hardly a step backwards for your pilot group. I'm suggesting that working under a written contract that guarantees your work rules and benefits would be an improvement over your present situation--not exactly a questionable proposition.

Fractional families are affected by what happens in the industry. That makes it logical for me to comment on current events. Should you not wish to read my posts feel free to put me on your ignore list. In the meantime, my best wishes to those at Flex with guts and determination to stand up for the industry standards you have earned.
Good Luck!
NJW

 

[walshsfly]

And just what is the industry standard? Your spouting it off now tell us what it is. Or do you not really know? Do you only know what netjets gets? I have read their contract, some parts I like some I don't. Don't try to tell me that my life would be better if it was like yours, because you know that's wrong. I have been in unions and now I'm not, and I think its better to not be in one. If you don't like the fact that some have a thought of there own, then I would suggest you never talk to anyone. Otherwise everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you have yours and I have mine, don't tell me I am wrong just because its not like yours, and I'll do the same.

 

[netjetwife]

NJ pilots make up the largest group of fractional pilots, by far, so it is fair to say that their contract is the industry standard. When one considers the total compensation package plus time off, I do believe that the NJ pilots win hands down. If there are CS pilots out there doing better I'd point out that they have no guarantees.

As for telling you, personally, what to think, Walshsfly, I wasn't and I wouldn't--obviously you have your mind made up. One could even argue that it's nailed shut given your tendency to judge 1108 by the track record of other unions rather than assessing it on its own merits.

As always, I post to the unseen audience--those that just read the board. I also wish to cheer on those pilots posting here that are interested in securing professional compensation for their skill and experience.

I have no idea what your life is like so wouldn't compare it to mine, but I can say that the present and future is now much brighter for many NJ families. Standing up for themselves made a big difference in their lifestyle. They have shown that it is possible to change the status quo of being underpaid/overworked. Best of Luck to the other frac pilots that also choose that path. It's worth it in the end.
NJW

 

[Cautious Belly]

Netjetwife showed up... thread is dead.

 

[hammer2]

I nominate her for president.

 

[Jetz]

Finally: words we can read and agree with.

It doesn't even have to be 1108. If Flex pilots are able to achieve what NJ pilots have without an official union, I'll congratulate you wholeheartedly.

Good Luck!
NJW

FINALLY!!! Words of wisdom from NJW.

 

[netjetwife]

Jetz, that has always been my position. However, if it were possible I do think it would have been done already. You conveniently left out the line about no better alternatives out there.

When you guys run down the union you're actually insulting yourselves and your fellow pilots. When the NJ pilots realized that THEY are the union and THEY can take charge of their career effective change was finally realized. Starting their own Local was a very smart move. Flight Options pilots recognized that advantage and joined 1108. I won't be surprised if Flex votes to do the same. All you have to do is look at the contract and the leadership of 1108 to see how much better off NJ pilots are now. 1108 has a track record to be proud of. It is comprised solely of frac pilots--your peers, whose lives are better because of 1108. One would think you'd be pleased for them.

The alternatives out there aren't nearly as promising. To me the choice looks easy--continue to be overworked/underpaid or take the route that will lead you to the professional compensation that is your due. Flex pilots can listen to the pessimists in their group or look at the results of 1108 and work toward that goal. On the NJ board I read of pilots buying new homes, vehicles, boats, etc. Building up their 401Ks and college accounts. Paying off debt and enjoying life for a change. I can't fathom that Flex pilots and their families don't want the same lifestyle. They do essentially the same job so certainly they earn and deserve the same compensation, don't they?

Flex pilots should ask the pilots in 1108 how satisfied they are with their union, not the anti-union pilots who have nothing to do with 1108. Here's Art's post again--well worth repeating--

It's happening guys and gals! Please go to the website and register or read the latest. We are well on our way to joining 1108. The silent group is speaking....



http://www.ibt1108.org/flexjet/

 

[Safetycheck]

Wifey

Jetz, that has always been my position. However, if it were possible I do think it would have been done already.

With that attitude, do you think 1108 would have accomplished what they did at NetJets? Contradictory garbage.

When you guys run down the union you're actually insulting yourselves and your fellow pilots...(that feel they should work less and be paid more) editorial edition to your quote.

By the way, I would be pleased for them more had they not worked for lousy wages all those years and drawn down the average for all that time. Did their retro pay REALLY make up the difference? I dont think so, and look how long it took for them to get what they "deserved."

The alternatives out there aren't nearly as promising.

I think there are 350+ CS pilots who would disagree with your shallow assertion.

To me the choice looks easy--continue to be overworked/underpaid or take the route that will lead you to the professional compensation that is your due.

Your "all or nothing" thinking here is almost pathological. Besides, what is your definition of overworked? We ALL abide by the same FAR's. Our companies CANNOT legally go over those limits, and none of them do. No one needs that double layer protection to ensure this. The FAA oversight of duty time regulations is enough...no one is being OVERWORKED. Malarchy.

On the NJ board I read of pilots buying new homes, vehicles, boats, etc. Building up their 401Ks and college accounts. Paying off debt and enjoying life for a change. I...

Yea, and like always, people tend to live up to and eventually beyond their means, at which time we will start to hear the whining that the pay isnt high enough. If your pilots werent happy before, they wont be happy now with their higher wages....well deserved without question, but higher that leads to higher spending. Oh, and that retro pay that fell short...will be spent too and bye bye...its gone. Its QOL that matters most, and what goes on between the ears which no union contract can deal with.

By the way, getting it in writing means....well something, but not much. LETS FACE IT>>> there are NO guarantees in life, PERIOD. Just ask DELTA pilots, or the many other airline pilots who saw their companies dissolve into the abyss, union or not. There are no guarantees.

So, the alternative is to find a company who has a track record of taking care of their employees.

By the way, hard work is a necessity in this business. An attitude of "i dont want to work hard or overextend myself" is not an attitude of success.