Flexjet Pilots www.ibt1108.org Flexjet Pilots

[PilotGuy]

Need I say more, pass it along to all you fly with.

Please do all you can to get this moving.

No one is safe without some form of protection.

 

[dime line]

Need I say more, pass it along to all you fly with.

Please do all you can to get this moving.

No one is safe without some form of protection.

Yea just look at FLOPS, our health insurance just went up again, nice

 

[ProFracPilot]

Isn't this type of crap supposed to be in the union section so us self respecting pilots don't have to see it. I am offended.

And with a title that makes the intent of the thread obvious, you - being the self respecting pilot that you obviously are - still opened the thread to read it. Perhaps your voyeur tendencies took over. You just couldn't help yourself, could you?

Sheesh.

 

[Flex newby]

Some of us are hoping for the best at Flex, that means UNION. The Walshflys of the world will just tag along.

 

[300pilot]

Flexnewby..... if you are indeed new, then head over to NJ if you want to belong to a union!! Keep dreaming of a union here at Flex, 'cause it will not happen. Your "Walshfly's of the world" comment leads me to believe that you are pointing and talking down to a majority of us here at Flex that are opposed to a union. The same people that have been here from day one, the same pilots that have worked through and endured the tough times here, so that people like you can enjoy the benefits of a Job here. We don't need you here so find work some other place that will satisfy your need of a union and lay off those of us who have laid the foundation of the Elite Fractional Provider, Flexjet.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Isn't this type of crap supposed to be in the union section so us self respecting pilots don't have to see it. I am offended.

Walsh and others. I respect your desire not to be part of a union, but do you agree that perhaps even more powerful than a union itself is the threat of a union? I believe that management must know that we are, at the very least, willing to unionize in order to obtain industry standard pay, benefits, and also job protection.

The only reason we have gotten increases in pay and QOL over the past few years is because of NJ, and NJ got it because of their union.

The argument of "if you don't like it then leave" is not that simple in this business. Senority is everything right? Lets say my major problem is the medical. I could go somewhere else, but due to the nature of this industry I start at the bottom no matter how much experience I have. That is a lot to give up. Sure the guys with under a year dont have much to lose, and I know a bunch have left over the summer, but what about those of us that have been here for years? I just dont see that many improvements happening, and when they do they are very half-ass. I mean, who actually ever started before 5am anyway?

I for one am beginning to think that a union is the best solution for us. We will have our pay and benefits down on paper. Also, in light of events over the summer (people being let go and suspended) I feel that have somebody in our corner will help me sleep at night.

 

[Buckeye]

Elite Fractional Provider? Heck I think you guys just finally posted a profit. So heres the line up:
Avantair 37 A/C
Citation Shares 84 A/C
FlexJet 91 A/C
Flight Options 140 A/C
NJA 409 A/C

Good luck Flex Folks

 

[bailey3083]

Isn't this type of crap supposed to be in the union section so us self respecting pilots don't have to see it. I am offended.

Everything Offends you! lol

Bailey

 

[NoPlaneNoGain]

I respect your desire not to be part of a union, but do you agree that perhaps even more powerful than a union itself is the threat of a union? I believe that management must know that we are, at the very least, willing to unionize in order to obtain industry standard pay, benefits, and also job protection.

Bingo!!!!

We all need to stand together if we EVER want to see improvements.

 

[JokerFuel]

Without a Union on property we really have no say in what changes, if any, the company makes in response to the "industry standard". We will be forced to eat whatever they they give us, and I'm betting it will be substandard and slow coming at best. Regardless of what happens we will have to become more vocal to force change. The problem is the fear of reciprocity. In other words, the squeaky wheel gets sacked.

 

[el raton]

Flexnewby..... if you are indeed new, then head over to NJ if you want to belong to a union!! Keep dreaming of a union here at Flex, 'cause it will not happen. Your "Walshfly's of the world" comment leads me to believe that you are pointing and talking down to a majority of us here at Flex that are opposed to a union. The same people that have been here from day one, the same pilots that have worked through and endured the tough times here, so that people like you can enjoy the benefits of a Job here. We don't need you here so find work some other place that will satisfy your need of a union and lay off those of us who have laid the foundation of the Elite Fractional Provider, Flexjet.

I would like to thank the forfathers of Flexjet for making it the 3rd best fractional to work for. Thank you Mr. Foundation man.

 

[walshsfly]

I would like to thank the forfathers of Flexjet for making it the 3rd best fractional to work for. Thank you Mr. Foundation man.

Where is everyone getting this 3rd from? Maybe in size but thats about it. Just ask your owners, the ones that have flown on us what they think of us.

 

[hammer2]

Where is everyone getting this 3rd from? Maybe in size but thats about it. Just ask your owners, the ones that have flown on us what they think of us.

Fly, I don't think he's looking at it from the owners prospective.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I would like to thank the forfathers of Flexjet for making it the 3rd best fractional to work for. Thank you Mr. Foundation man.

oh man thats funny!!!

 

[Club ORD FO]

Well, lets look at the Fracs as far as daily rates goes. I think my math is mostly correct on these.

#1 - Netjets (soon to be new rates) on 7/7 (182 days/ year)

1st year FO: $312/day
5 year captain: $551/day


#2 - Citation Shares 7/7 (182 days/year)

1st year FO: $219/day
5 year captain: $500/day


#3 - Flexjet - 15.5 days per 28 day bid period (202 days/year)

1st year FO: $195/day
5 year lear captain (who would be on YEAR 4 PAY!!!) $406/day


#4 - Options 8/7 (197 days/year)

1st year FO: $172/day
5 year captain (midsize): $361/day



so, we are 3rd in pay, and options is going to jump ahead of us eventually. Being best in service can only go so far.

 

[BombJet45]

Wow! That Netjet's FO pay is truly eye opening (captain pay isn't too shabby either). My bet is CS will match Netjets raise. Flex will take their time and come up with just enough to appease the pilots that are on the union fence. The trick for management is what will that raise be: 10%, 15%, 20%? Flex is already behind on pay alone and that's not even mentioning Flex's subpar health benefits. I can see it now, the road show that explains how excited they are bringing the pilots a new package that falls well short. Here is a quoted line you will be sure to hear, "We do not see how Netjets will be able to afford this new pay scale."

 

[NETFLIER]

300 pilot,

with comments like you made, i would say STOP drinking the kool-aid. but clearly you need to STOP smoking Weed as well.

Bright side is when you dont make it as a union pilot there will some stand-up comedy work someplace for you.

We all set the standard and believe we should all be paid equally for doing such. Your idealism continues to show your one side is for you and you only. I feel sorry for your fellow workers.

 

[skyismyoffice]

"We do not see how Netjets will be able to afford this new pay scale."

I love that line!! Options was throwing it around after the initial Net Jets contract passed. Man was it great to throw it back in their faces the first quarter Net Jets posted a profit.

I have to agree with all those Flex pilots that are worried about losing benefits at the whim of some company bean counter. A contract is truley the only way to get some piece of mind. I won't sugar coat it though - the road to the contract is tough! Don't know if I will be able to stick it out.

 

[johnsonrod]

It costs more to train new pilots than it does to retain happy, existing pilots who get better at what they do over time (they learn the ropes and remain consistent in terms of service delivery - very important). Attrition can get very expensive quickly - I am sure FLOPS can vouch for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Club ORD FO]

I do wonder how our attrition compares to the other fracs. I dont think ours it TOO high. And I dont think anybody is leaving because they dont like it here. It is a good company and the flying is great, but there is just more money to be made other places. I'd like to stay here for another 30 years (would be nice to have that kind of job security) but there are certainly a lot of other opportunities out there offering better pay.

Management has eluded to some sort of response to the NJ increase, so I guess we'll wait and see what it is. There is such a variety of things that people want fixed though. Some are looking for more pay, I'm all about more gateways, others are really concerned about the retirement, others are very unhappy with the medical benefits, and still others want more time off. If they really want to slow down attrition they are going to have to fix a whole bunch of those.

 

[flexpilot]

My comments in red below.

I do wonder how our attrition compares to the other fracs. I dont think ours it TOO high. And I dont think anybody is leaving because they dont like it here. I bet we have at least 100 former Flexjet pilots at NetJets. Former FlexJet Captains and FO's. Everyone of them I talked to left because of broken promises and they absolutely hated the liars and backstabbers in management. If the IBB passes we'll have many more. The smart pilots are not going to wait to form a union. They are going to do exactly as I did, vote with their feet! Recently a captain that I flew with called me. We haven't talked in 2 years. He wanted information on our TA. He is seriously considering leaving, he's been with FlexJet 8 years. It is a good company and the flying is great, but there is just more money to be made other places. I'd like to stay here for another 30 years (would be nice to have that kind of job security) but there are certainly a lot of other opportunities out there offering better pay.

Management has eluded to some sort of response to the NJ increase, so I guess we'll wait and see what it is. There is such a variety of things that people want fixed though. Some are looking for more pay, I'm all about more gateways, others are really concerned about the retirement, others are very unhappy with the medical benefits, and still others want more time off. If they really want to slow down attrition they are going to have to fix a whole bunch of those.

You're kidding right?

That is your response to low wages, lack of bases and regressive health care? Wait and see what happens? Depend on management to do the right thing? How many times does Lucy pull the football away Charlie Brown? I would either be sending out resumes or organizing.

Good luck my friend. You are certainly depending on it.

 

[dime line]

I do wonder how our attrition compares to the other fracs. I dont think ours it TOO high. And I dont think anybody is leaving because they dont like it here. It is a good company and the flying is great, but there is just more money to be made other places. I'd like to stay here for another 30 years (would be nice to have that kind of job security) but there are certainly a lot of other opportunities out there offering better pay.

Management has eluded to some sort of response to the NJ increase, so I guess we'll wait and see what it is. There is such a variety of things that people want fixed though. Some are looking for more pay, I'm all about more gateways, others are really concerned about the retirement, others are very unhappy with the medical benefits, and still others want more time off.

If they really want to slow down attrition they are going to have to fix a whole bunch of those

.

They don't have to fix anything, why you ask? YOU. And all the pilots like you. They have pilots that are wanting to wait "to see what they give us". Give being the all important word. Your comments sound like your head is in the sand, and don't want to rock the boat.