Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Flexjet Pilot Conundrum

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Gokart Mozart

New member
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Posts
2
This needs to be said.

Time and time again you guys get hit with news that indicate a serious or drastic change in the way the future looks for you. Some of you think you are resilient and can adapt and overcome anything by providing such "great amazing service" because someone at the Waterview told that over and over and over. Others see it and you as an uncontrollable descending ride into the mountain range. Remember that word - uncontrollable.

In every instance you guys buy into the"current state of affairs" from your superiors only to find that it really isn't that way after all. How many times does it take for you to see the big picture that they claim you never have, do, or will see? If I mention the name Fred Reid some of you will have a lousy excuse or diatribe about the business model and yet...well why even go there.

Just last year you were being told (via rumor I might add) that "Flexjet" (Dave, Deanna, Tom, etc) were in CLE negotiating talks about a purchase with Flight Options. Your collective arrogance (most of you, not all) only could see this as Flexjet is on the move to grow and expand to compete with the mighty NetJets. Oh you can bet they were in CLE guys, just not with YOU in mind. Instead of patting yourselves on the back for "rollin with the changes" you should be LOOKING at these head on and strategically making an assessment for yourselves. A very wise Marine once told me to "put the fear in front of you because it may be something that has to be killed". This holds true in your situation.

And here you are now a year later with everyone at the top bailing out and leaving you to pick up the pieces of a sale that leaves a lot more questions than answers. Wanna bet Deanna is gone soon? Perhaps in Montreal? Some of you should run down to the bakery and get her a cake or something lol. A lot of you thought about it, you know who you are.

Look - You guys are being asked to sign a letter that has conditions of employment for the SHORT term. Quite possibly, the absolute most important financial decision you could be making and yet many of you talk as if this is a good thing and should go flippantly into it with the trust of a trapeze artist at the local carnival. You wouldn't buy a house, or a car, or get into any other kind of contract without reading the fine print would you? Why would you get into a condition of employment without at least some type of representation or collective understanding ? Ahhh yes, we know the answer to that already.

Each and every one of you should be thinking collectively. About the senior guys who may very well be losing their pension. About the junior guys faced with a stagnation or a possible further furlough even though "they are/were hiring last month". About the obvious pathetic attempt to explain away a business model that is way more expensive to operate than the 20,000 lb gorilla on the field. It used to be said, all NetJets had to do was have a fire sale and you guys would be done. That was actually said by your former chief pilot. NOW - all Netjets has to do is offer a sweetener to a deal and think about who will come running. But oh wait, you provide such great service?!? Perhaps you should apply that great service to your internal customers (YOURSELVES)? Does that ring true to anyone? All the old guys will tell you -"Take care of your Crew, your Jet, and your Passengers, the rest will follow". Sound good advice from a few generations away.

Forget about the usual cheerleaders and the pseudo intellectuals that really believe they have this business figured out because of some unproven warped ideology. Blame Bush, Obamacare, Fred Reid, Dave Gross, Deanna White, or whoever, but whatever you do take a good hard look at the chronological facts and TAKE CONTROL of part of your situation. DEMAND a seat at the damn table!

Sorry if this is too offensive to some.

It really is up to you.

Good Luck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeI5ke0BENw
 
Last edited:
Good post, (a little disorienting) but, the problem at flexjet is and will always be the 604 fleet and the top 50 in the 300. Yes, the first 110 people or so on the list only care about self-preservation, not the collective whole. I have no dog in this hunt but, I don't think anyone would argue with me here on what I've stated. I agree with you that the flexjet group is like sheep to the slaughter house. Individually, most people there are smart but, as a whole, the top half drags it down. A union will never happen at Flexjet, quit trying and quit talking about it. I really feel for all the good people at Flexjet, now with an unknown certainty.
The more I think about how many times I listened to Fred Reid and Dave Gross say with such disdain to the pilots, "Flexjet is NOT for sale, please stop asking". I understand they could not let that cat out of the bag but they were pretty stern with their statements and it just shows that your trust must be limited to the people at the top. You are all pilots but, to them you are workers and are at the bottom of the food chain. They will not hesitate to squash whomever they wish to achieve whatever agenda or plan is thought of next (which is happening as we speak).
If I were still at Flexjet, I would be looking aggressively for other jobs if I were in the bottom 100 (my opinion). I hope everything works out for you guys at Flexjet, you are the best group of pilots I've worked with in over 32 years of flying. Be smart and look at the sequence of events over the past 3 years (as stated in the post above), and you will see the writing on the wall. Move on and be thankful you got to work with a great bunch of pilots there.
 
All you have to do is remember how the Raytheon merger went with FLOPS, this story has already been written once before with your new owner! Has anything really changed, well he wrote a book "Management by trust". Ask any Flops pilots we will fill you in.
 
Some Flops pilots say things are good and some say they aren't. What do we believe? Either way, we will find out soon wether we will regret not unionizing before.... Either way, the last thing Ken would want is to have an angry union (at FLOPS) and an angry, nothing to loose mentality pilot group at his (LUXURY) division. We have already taken a cut in Bombardier stock, the 401k will most likely not be the same, and we are pretty sure the insurance will go up. Any further pay decrease will only make things really, really bad. Once the union drive is started, why not ask for parity (with NETJETS) +.... Again, we have nothing to loose. If I, as a 9 year Captain am going to go to less than what an FO makes, why not go for broke?? At least that will be my incentive to move on to the airlines....
 
8 Year FO at Flex working 16 DAYS will loose about 20-25k a year with FLOPS pay rate.
15 Year Challenger CA will loose about 60k with FLOPS pay rate.

MIGHT BE A GREAT IDEA TO ORGANIZE.....
 
The pay for Flex pilots probably won't go down since we all know that flying a "luxury" business jet from from PBI to TEB takes more skill and is more demanding then flying a "value" business jet from PBI to TEB.

Just look at the Flight Options Phenoms and Net Jet Phenoms. The Netjets platinum edition phenom pilot deserves to be paid 40k a year more then the Flight Options origional version phenom pilot should be since after all the platinum edition has a more impressive sounding name.

Just ask Flight options management they will explain it to you.
 
Last edited:
I posted this in a different thread by mistake.

All we've heard on our side is how profitable Flex is. If that's the case, why would they cut compensation and risk having a pissed off pilot group?

Along similar lines, would they risk disenfranchising the FlOps pilots by maintaining a two-tier pay system?

Me thinks there's going to be a whole lotta negotiatin' goin' on in the coming months between management and the 1108. We all should just chill for now and let this unfold (trying to take my own advice here).
 

Latest resources

Back
Top