Flexjet Management Promotes Calling Pilots while in Rest

[The Architect]

It's called Scope

Do you think that the IBT and FO management are going to lock horns? Are they going to war over their contract? Is FJ going into position to cover FO trips in the event?

Flexjet flying Flight Options trips is limited by protections in the Flight Options Pilots CBA.

Any other operator flying Flight Options trips is limited by subcontract charter provisions, including Flexjet.

So, Flexjet covering Flights Options trips in violation of Scope is not going to happen. However, Flight Options can have their pilots fly all of the Flexjet trips they want. No limits.

 

[warlord19]

imacdog, uh, you are simply wrong. you can NOW be notified +- 2hrs unless you are on the no-call list. Glorified Cab..I accept your offer for a brew. jet wash, unfortunately we all have our share of these types of stories, though for the MOST part they have disappeared with the “band” method we use.

My concern’s are helping make Flex a SAFE, efficient organization…one fatal crash due to company-induced pilot fatigue would be a serious, perhaps fatal blow to the fractional industry. I think FO has a strict no-call policy while in rest, and that is fine. The COST is more pilots, higher DH, more charter, etc. when sh*t happens in the real world.

This is the area that our DO is looking at to see if we can become more efficient and still maintain a safe working environment. There is a lot of discussion on Yammer on this subject and I imagine some new policies will emerge.

I’m not anti-union per se, but i’m not pro-union(especially IBT) just because it’s the thing to do nowadays(which it isn’t).

This is a great discussion and no goobers have emerged lately to coarsen it’s tone.

Again, Cheers,
WL
PS..ah Architect, you funny guy>

 

[imacdog]

Safety does cost money. How much money are you willing to save?

 

[The Architect]

Flight Options Pilots get their Rest

From the Flight Options Pilots CBA:

Definitions -

"Rest/Rest Period - [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]A period of time free of all responsibility for work or duty prior to the commencement of, or following completion of, a duty period and during which the pilot cannot be required to receive contact from the Company. A rest period does not include any time during which the Company imposes on a pilot any duty or restraint, including any actual work or present responsibility for work should the occasion arise."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

Hours of Service -

"Pilots are not required to keep the Company-issued communications device "on" during rest. During a period of time when a pilot is not obligated to be contactable, an electronic brief is not effective unless it is affirmatively accepted by the pilot. If the Company attempts to contact a pilot in violation of this subsection, the required rest period begins anew. An individual pilot may not brief another pilot in rest of his start time or a revision to his start time."


The same CEO and VP of Operations at both companies. Flight Options pilots work under that above rules. Why is there a problem with Flexjet pilots being treated the same way? If senior management cares so much about the pilots, why abolish the "no call" list? Hell, why not do just the opposite? Why not make the above language policy at Flexjet and be done with it?
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[The Architect]

Plan for It

I think FO has a strict no-call policy while in rest, and that is fine. The COST is more pilots, higher DH, more charter, etc. when sh*t happens in the real world.

See, that's the problem, or maybe the trap that management in the industry likes to play. The COST is greater because...

That's a bad argument. The standard begins with safety, regulations and uninterrupted, prospective rest assignments. The concept that this costs more money is smoke and mirrors.

You see, the cost of operations of this nature must take into account the standard of uninterrupted, prospective rest for pilots. Not the other way around. "When sh*t happens in the real world" needs to be planned for without pilots responding and the company changing duty assignments while in that rest. That's not how the FAA looks at it. That's not how the NTSB looks at it. And that's how management should look at it when seeking the TRUST and respect of their pilot.

So, by agreeing to answer your phone, during what should be your uninterrupted, prospective rest; you may be providing some financial saving that the company should not depend on. You are lining someone's pocket at your expense.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

WL. I might run into you one of these days. The first(or second) is on me. Watch out for the guy with min rest then does something stupid and tries to hang you. I hate to rat out another pilot but, when YOU get the CGF1??

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

What cracks me up and blows my mind is that all I hear on here from FlexJet pilots is how we at Flight Options are the ones bringing the industry down, etc....

However you guys are just willing to roll over and accept the company calling you an hour into your ten hour rest or two hours before the end of ten hours.

What's the point of a 10 hour rest period, if you are going to let the company call you during it. Whether it's 1 hr after the start or 2 hrs before the end or right in the middle of it.

Great way to bring down the industry.

The FAA has allowed one contact during rest. This is a legal interpretation.

It sounds like when you ar sent to the hotel you aren't given a clear message as to when your 10 hours of rest is.

When we get our closing information it clearly lists when our 10 of required rest is. It may not be when we duty off. We can be released at 1600 but not start rest until 2200 since we have a later show. They can never move a trip into our required 10 hours of rest. That would violate 135 rest rules.

What our DO is asking for does not violate any rest rules.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Sounds like you are confusing released to the hotel with released for rest.

 

[slowtation capt]

The FAA has allowed one contact during rest. This is a legal interpretation.

It sounds like when you ar sent to the hotel you aren't given a clear message as to when your 10 hours of rest is.

When we get our closing information it clearly lists when our 10 of required rest is. It may not be when we duty off. We can be released at 1600 but not start rest until 2200 since we have a later show. They can never move a trip into our required 10 hours of rest. That would violate 135 rest rules.

What our DO is asking for does not violate any rest rules.

If you are sent to the hotel but not released, then you are still on duty. They can call you.

So why is there this debate then? If you are saying that you are talking about the time when you have been released from the fbo to the hotel, but not given or started your formal required rest period.

 

[slowtation capt]

If you are sent to the hotel but not released, then you are still on duty. They can call you.

So why is there this debate then? If you are saying that you are talking about the time when you have been released from the fbo to the hotel, but not given or started your formal required rest period.

Same thing happens with us, many times at the hotel for a few hours before we get our official release and start our required rest.