Flexjet January meeting

[Turbinehead]

Hey, ah, er Netjetwife.???

Sky Pirate, I like your advice for those who are in the job market--vote with your feet. It can affect change, albeit, slowly. That said, what about the pilots that are already employed by companies that undervalue their contribution? That have refused to make good on those promises...we'll take care of you soon...hang in there.....work with us and then.....

What happens when that day doesn't arrive? Why should pilots who have invested time in a company, made friendships there, and have settled their families, have to "vote with their feet"? One voice at a time raised in protest--turning down the job---is far too easy for these companies to ignore. For too many management teams it takes a loud chorus of strong voices in unison demanding... show me the money....treat me with respect...give credit where credit is due. After endless periods of broken promises and continued foot-dragging on addressing legitimate complaints, pilots have the right to stand together and call "Time's up!"

Labor unrest and bad morale have negative consequences for all involved. Why continue to prolong the situation? If the companies respected the pilots, their work rules would reflect that. If their skills were valued, their paychecks would show that. True, you get what you negotiate, but who has the best chance of getting it---the lone pilot or a strong union?

Recognizing there's strength in numbers,
Netjetwife

Hey, ya, Netjetwife. Did ya happen to see that little blockbuster movie there a couple of years back. It was called, THE TITANIC?

Yea, theres strentgh in numbers alright...in MOST circumstances.

 

[netjetwife]

A very good example of many paying for the mistakes of a few. If you are seeking to draw a parallel between their situation and that of frac pilots, I concur. Mismanagement was clearly to blame!

 

[Turbinehead]

Yea, thats it.

A very good example of many paying for the mistakes of a few. If you are seeking to draw a parallel between their situation and that of frac pilots, I concur. Mismanagement was clearly to blame!

Rising tide raises all boats, and all floatsam too.

Yea, but who was steering that boat? Union workforce or managemt? Who was looking out for the iceberg.

Icebaahhhg. Deeeaaad aheeeeaad!!!

 

[hammer2]

Oh you have to understand Hammer. He's never satisfied until he has a mouthful of sausage. He's a poser anyway.

You probably got to sleep in because I was trip trollin.

 

[netjetwife]

It was pressure from above that was responsible for the Titanic pushing ahead in dangerous conditions. The owners were out for glory--setting a record--safety wasn't a major concern. It was also their decision to provide far fewer life boats than was needed. Clearly, the loss of lives cannot be blamed on those that worked on the ship. According to your way of thinking, the pilots will be to blame if the card venture causes problems. Pilots have to be accountable for what happens in the cockpit. It's not asking too much for management to exercise responsibility in setting the policies that affect all involved.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Hammer just admit that you are a poser. It's so obvious. Either that or you are a company bitch.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Sky Pirate, I like your advice for those who are in the job market--vote with your feet. It can affect change, albeit, slowly. That said, what about the pilots that are already employed by companies that undervalue their contribution? That have refused to make good on those promises...we'll take care of you soon...hang in there.....work with us and then.....

What happens when that day doesn't arrive? Why should pilots who have invested time in a company, made friendships there, and have settled their families, have to "vote with their feet"? One voice at a time raised in protest--turning down the job---is far too easy for these companies to ignore. For too many management teams it takes a loud chorus of strong voices in unison demanding... show me the money....treat me with respect...give credit where credit is due. After endless periods of broken promises and continued foot-dragging on addressing legitimate complaints, pilots have the right to stand together and call "Time's up!"

Labor unrest and bad morale have negative consequences for all involved. Why continue to prolong the situation? If the companies respected the pilots, their work rules would reflect that. If their skills were valued, their paychecks would show that. True, you get what you negotiate, but who has the best chance of getting it---the lone pilot or a strong union?

Recognizing there's strength in numbers,
Netjetwife

You make very good points and I have read your posts for a while now. The problem that I am worried about with unionizing the entire fractional industry is that then the union becomes to powerful and possibly corrupt and now your have a situation just like the New York City transit strike. Their are those at Flex who have a lot invested there both career wise and family and I am not telling them that they should get up and leave. The newhires are the ones who can make the difference by not accepting a sub par package. Flexjet's benefit package was its saving grace, but now that thats gone there isn't anything left making a position there worthwhile.

Anybody thinking about getting into the fractional industry should have NJ and CS as their choses, but if they get a Flex or FLOPS interview, go to it and reject their offer stating the reason as I had mentioned earlier. There is strength in numbers and when we as pilots start respecting ourselves as the professionals that we are, instead of outbidding each other to the lowest possible denominator, then we will get paid what we deserve.

The regionals outbid each other everyday and look what type of mess that they are in right now and I bet that 75% of all fractional newhires are from a regional.

Bottom line: Anybody considering the fractionals DON'T GO TO FLEX OR FLOPS. Let them get their act together first and we will all be better off for it.

 

[gunfyter]

What happened to the benefit package?

 

[CL604DRVR]

What happened to the benefit package?

Tomorrow starts the new health plans. HSA's (health savings accounts) you pay more and get less. The top story above the fold in USA today's money section the day after thanksgiving was how these were crappy plans. The company line was we are going to give you more choices in you health care. You can choose to pay even more or you can pay less and get nothing....but it's your choice.

This issue was the final straw that made my decision to leave.

 

[CL604DRVR]

In fairness the insurance deal was a Bombardier thing that went corporate wide as far as I know. Not just Flex folks were hurt by this.

 

[ArtVandalay]

I see where a 9 year captain just quit this week. Titanic might be a good analogy.

 

[miles otoole]

Tomorrow starts the new health plans. HSA's (health savings accounts) you pay more and get less. The top story above the fold in USA today's money section the day after thanksgiving was how these were crappy plans. The company line was we are going to give you more choices in you health care. You can choose to pay even more or you can pay less and get nothing....but it's your choice.

This issue was the final straw that made my decision to leave.

That sucks. However, these HSAs are here to stay and the majority of companies are expected to have them in place within 3-5 years (wife's in a govt health care position.) They are good if you are healthy and don't visit the doctor for every stomache ache. With stats showing 10% of an organizations workforce uses 85% of its healthcare budget, the HSAs benefit those who better care for themselves (or so it's spun.)
In order to stay competitive, CFOs will recommend they be put in place. Nothing to do with good or bad management, but simply the new cost of doing business. Unless you work for yourself, it will be very difficult to avoid this new paradigm.
Frivilous malpractice law suits and Americans overwhelming desire to supersize themselves is driving this. Heck, medicare now makes stomache stapling surgery an elective surgery paid for by you and I. Good luck.

 

[hammer2]

Hammer just admit that you are a poser. It's so obvious. Either that or you are a company bitch.

Oh yea I'm the real deal! u probably have broke bread with me. Anybody guess what we might get on FEB 1? I bet we get a 10% increase in pay across the board and 15 days a bid period. would that be enough to keep people? Wheres Cosmo? And I'm not a sausage man, not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Here is a comparison of our current pay scale, which you can get on airlinepilotcentral.com. I've just condensed it for easy viewing:

F/O FLEXJET CSHARES NETJETS

YEAR 1 $35,360 $40,000 $39,000
YEAR 2 $38,675 $45,000 $40,950
YEAR 3 $40,885 $50,000 $43,000
YEAR 4 $44,200 $51,250 $45,150
YEAR 5 $45,526 $52,530 $47,410

CAPT

YEAR 1 $56,797 $64,000 $52,500
YEAR 2 $59,670 $66,000 $61,880
YEAR 3 $62,101 $72,000 $71,250
YEAR 4 $69,836 $81,000 $80,630
YEAR 5 $72,046 $91,000 $90,000

Just FYI, those NetJets pay rates are for the regular (7 on/7 off) schedule. The so-called "reserve" (18-day) schedule pays about 18.6% more for the extra days worked.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Oh trust me Hammer I KNOW who you are. I bet you used to work for Cherry Air AND, I could expose your name right now. So I would be careful here.

And where is my compadre Cosmo? Come on give us some of your insight.