FlexJet - Anything New???

[finnjl]

I agree with you

 

[CL300Pilot]

There we 2 or 3 upgrades this week. Based on that, I would have to assume that they are from the Jan 2006 class.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
I am one of several that is in the 1st class of Jan. 2006 and to my knowledge no one in that class has upgraded. IE, no one is acting as PIC or being paid as a Captain. We are all standing by waiting for a phone call. The current seniority list show the last upgrade as a class of Dec. 2005.

 

[Necromonger]

Back to the original Question...

Seems very quiet with the Flex folks. Anything new going on over there? NO... Base improvements? NO... Rolling rest improvements? NO... 3 a.m. calls from scheduling cease? NO... Health insurance improvements? NO... QOL improvements? NO... Still hot to trot for a union? Should Be!!! Or have all of those gone by the wayside with the May daily rate increase? I Guess so...

Just curious - seems like the crickets are noisier than the pilots since the pay increase announcement.

Fast

I guess management knew just how much the payraise would have to be to shut us up, and we're still #3.

If there are any improvements to the rest issue, They are all RUMORs for now, with NO official word from management.
We shall see...

Livin' da DREAM!!!

"Have a Kicka$$ Summer..."

 

[Ludicris]

Correct me if I'm wrong...
I am one of several that is in the 1st class of Jan. 2006 and to my knowledge no one in that class has upgraded. IE, no one is acting as PIC or being paid as a Captain. We are all standing by waiting for a phone call. The current seniority list show the last upgrade as a class of Dec. 2005.

If you are a FO, then why is your current position listed as "El Capitan"?

 

[Rouge Warrior]

Correct me if I'm wrong...
I am one of several that is in the 1st class of Jan. 2006 and to my knowledge no one in that class has upgraded. IE, no one is acting as PIC or being paid as a Captain. We are all standing by waiting for a phone call. The current seniority list show the last upgrade as a class of Dec. 2005.

In the monthly mailer it listed a Jan06 as in upgrade sometime tis month or it may have been an e-mail.

 

[Necromonger]

Nevermind...

 

[FastJP4]

I guess management knew just how much the payraise would have to be to shut us up, and we're still #3.

If there are any improvements to the rest issue, They are all RUMORs for now, with NO official word from management.
We shall see...

Livin' da DREAM!!!

"Have a Kicka$$ Summer..."

Pretty sad. Flex is a distant third at best - what a farce.

 

[North2AK]

I heard that it is the FAA driving the new rest issues with Flex. Hence JS, the old POI, getting the boot. I heard he is now on trash can duty at some obscure tower for the way he has let Flex run-a-muck with its rest rules. I am sure though that when the new rules come out that DG will spin the new rest rules as the CAB and Rest rules comittee coming together with management and making a change for the better. If it is spun this way it is a total farse.

The FAA is the driving force behind the changes that will be announced in the near future.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah I heard the same thing. Supposedly there were a bunch of rest related ASAP reports this past winter and somebody in the FAA higher up than our POI noticed and investigated our rest rules. Evidently that person did not like what they found.

 

[Ludicris]

The 3am wakeup calls are still happening! It just happened to me the other day.

 

[300pilot]

why did you answer the phone?

 

[DirtyBeech]

PBS yield just dropped to 15 days. How's that raise looking now?

 

[finnjl]

PBS yield just dropped to 15 days. How's that raise looking now?

true, but you are still guranteed 16 days per bid (208 per year) cycle if you want them, I think the lower yield will give people the opportunity to work less if they want to and people that want to work more can

 

[SDCFI]

true, but you are still guranteed 16 days per bid (208 per year) cycle if you want them, I think the lower yield will give people the opportunity to work less if they want to and people that want to work more can

True, but the raise should have been based on 15 days then and not 15.5. This means first year pay is really 54k opposed to 56k, and that's still working 15 days more per year than NJ or CS. Flex math at its finest.

 

[Club ORD FO]

ugh....just look the pay as daily rates. forget about the year end numbers game. the "average" that they show everybody should be based on daily rates

and if he didn't answer the phone at 3am he'd get in trouble right?

 

[Flyingdog1]

and if he didn't answer the phone at 3am he'd get in trouble right?

Not if he was in rest.

 

[Club ORD FO]

well of course he was in rest. it was 3am. unless he had a 4am show he was in rest.

but they call during rest all the time. thats the point...they use rolling rest. as long as you had 10 hours uninterrupted before they call, they dont care if you are currently in rest or not

I had a show time moved up by 6 hours recently. If I didn't answer the phone I'm sure i would have gotten in trouble. I have never ever ever flown with a captain that does not answer their phone at 3am. They all ask, "if they call, how much notice do you need?" so everybody answers the phone. Not one person has said on the BB "I do not answer my phone." everybody talks tough here but nobody actually follows the rules

 

[Seahawk]

Rest Rules

well of course he was in rest. it was 3am. unless he had a 4am show he was in rest.

but they call during rest all the time. thats the point...they use rolling rest. as long as you had 10 hours uninterrupted before they call, they dont care if you are currently in rest or not

I had a show time moved up by 6 hours recently. If I didn't answer the phone I'm sure i would have gotten in trouble. I have never ever ever flown with a captain that does not answer their phone at 3am. They all ask, "if they call, how much notice do you need?" so everybody answers the phone. Not one person has said on the BB "I do not answer my phone." everybody talks tough here but nobody actually follows the rules

It's a shame that very few pilots know the rules of their profession. You want to answer the phone? Go a head.

 

[Pacific]

well of course he was in rest. it was 3am. unless he had a 4am show he was in rest.

but they call during rest all the time. thats the point...they use rolling rest. as long as you had 10 hours uninterrupted before they call,

Actually, according to them, on a normal overnight they can call after 8hrs of rest no matter what time you were originally planned to come out of rest.... So into rest at 1700 the phone can begin ringing at 0300am or the original planned time, or your duty start time can be pushed back to whatever they desire... Not sure how you are expected to plan your sleep for all this, but that's the way it is.

Hopefully things will get better in the near future with more logical and safe rest rules.

 

[Ludicris]

why did you answer the phone?

Because if I don't answer the phone, they will find a "reason" to fire me.

 

[finnjl]

You are in rest at 1700 (if not later depending on the day) then 10 hours later which is 0300 they can call you. I do not get why that is rolling rest?


Rolling rest would be if you are setting in the hotel doing nothing and they call you and put you on duty at noon then you are good for 14 hours from that point.

It does not seem that bad to me as I can not switch my sleeping habits in a day anyway. I do not wake up at 7AM when I have no trips assigned. So what is the difference?

I would say if you want a fixed schedule FlexJet is not the place for you.

 

[Pacific]

Rolling rest would be if you are setting in the hotel doing nothing and they call you and put you on duty at noon then you are good for 14 hours from that point.

That is exactly what there policy is and is what they can do. The early morning wake up calls are not the only issue here, they can also change your morning start to as late as they want and then from that point you are good for 14 hrs.

Also they can begin to try to contact you after 8hrs. rest, so into rest at 1700 phone can start ringing at 0100 for a showtime/duty start of 0300.

Rolling/Floating enough for you yet?

 

[exagony]

by definition if u are not in rest u are on duty. So if one is required to answer the phone if it rings at 3 am you are on duty reguardless of what time your "show time is". So being required to answer a potential phone call at 3 am while having a show time at noon, you would technically have been on duty for 9 hours at you noon show time. If you are required to answer the phone you are NOT in rest.

 

[DirtyBeech]

You are in rest at 1700 (if not later depending on the day) then 10 hours later which is 0300 they can call you. I do not get why that is rolling rest?


Rolling rest would be if you are setting in the hotel doing nothing and they call you and put you on duty at noon then you are good for 14 hours from that point.

It does not seem that bad to me as I can not switch my sleeping habits in a day anyway. I do not wake up at 7AM when I have no trips assigned. So what is the difference?

I would say if you want a fixed schedule FlexJet is not the place for you.

Please sign up for the new "I'm available and happy to answer anytime you might call" list that the CAB is proposing. Good grief.

It doesn't bother you that if your 14hour day is scheduled to start at 2pm, and you plan your rest accordingly, that they can and will call you at 1am for a 3am show? That is rolling rest, and it is unacceptable. Maybe you can force yourself asleep by 6pm in order to get some semblance of rest for the possible 1am phone call, but many can not, and should not.

Rolling rest means that you are available at 0001 lcl when on home reserve unless otherwise notified. Are you really getting good rest starting at 2pm? Why do you think that it's your responsibility to put yourself in rest?

I realize that the only thing that matters to you is first and last day work rules as you've made it clear on the BB, but our rest rules are unsafe, illegal, and below industry standards. It's not just us union folk who say that either. The federalies share that sentiment, and it's why we'll be doing crew rot in the near future. At least I'll know when I'm supposed to be sleeping though.

 

[hammer2]

If you do not have a next day assignment then you have to answer the phone (after 10 hours.). If you do have a show time, let it ring.

 

[luckydog]

If you do not have a next day assignment then you have to answer the phone (after 10 hours.). If you do have a show time, let it ring.

You're kidding right....

 

[North2AK]

The new e-mail that came out today is bogus, just lipstick on a pig. DG said that rest rules were a number one priority for the first quarter of 2008. Here we are 3 months later and there has been nothing but BS. They have had meetings to decide when to have a meeting to decide on the meeting times for the comittee that was formed to pick the comitee to schedule the meetings to throughly confuse us all! 3 more months of getting blown out of bed at 3am while we are suppose to be patient and await DG's decision. The rest rules comittee is just there to apease the pilot group. Whens it going to end, when we have an accident or incident?

 

[ArtVandalay]

Yeah the rest rule that just came out only addresses days that you don't even work. The biggest problem are days that we DO WORK. DUH.

What we really need is that rule applied to days that we DO have an assignment.

If I have no assignment tomorrow while out on the road, why do I care when my rest ends? I mean, I'll take that rule but, it's worthless unless they apply it to days that we DO WORK.

 

[FastJP4]

The new e-mail that came out today is bogus, just lipstick on a pig. DG said that rest rules were a number one priority for the first quarter of 2008. Here we are 3 months later and there has been nothing but BS. They have had meetings to decide when to have a meeting to decide on the meeting times for the comittee that was formed to pick the comitee to schedule the meetings to throughly confuse us all! 3 more months of getting blown out of bed at 3am while we are suppose to be patient and await DG's decision. The rest rules comittee is just there to apease the pilot group. Whens it going to end, when we have an accident or incident?

Pretty pathetic, a play right out of the playbook. Seems to me nothing will change the companies game unless it's an outside force. Now where could that outside force come from.................................................? Hmmmm.

 

[netjetwife]

FJP4, was I too quick to offer congratulations to the Flex pilots on another thread that made things sounding promising and right on track? Speaking of, the pathway to a contract is usually paved with broken promises. Not exactly the same thing, huh? If you guys posting here have time, I'd appreciate hearing your viewpoint on the status of affairs at Flex. Regards, NJW