Flex hiring?

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Paid more? I'll give up 30k to have a contract.

 

[el raton]

Paid more? I'll give up 30k to have a contract.

Something tells me you're one of those types a union tends to protect.

 

[jetwash]

Maybe an FO or two who would rather fly a Cl30 instead of a beech junk...and get paid more.

No Flex pay match, you are frozen at your current pay for 4 to 7 years and go to the bottom of a list so that you can then have last choice of lines and vacations.

Just a new twist on the old Ricci slide to poverty system.

I hope the Flex guys are starting to see what type of deals Kenn really offers.

 

[luckydog]

No Flex pay match, you are frozen at your current pay for 4 to 7 years and go to the bottom of a list so that you can then have last choice of lines and vacations.

For comparison, 195 days/year (that's 15 days/bid period) pays $69K at year 4 and $78K at year 7.

As a junior guy you'll work 16 days/bid but should be able to get to 15 as seniority increases.

You're right about vacation. Choices improve when there is movement on the list. The prime weeks, Christmas/New Years/Thanksgiving go to the guys in the single digits but it's not too hard to get a desired week if you're flexible.

The value of a Lear or Challenger type to an individual is subjective and can't really be debated but getting out of the Beechjet must be worth something.

Anyone willing to give up 30k for the FLOPs contract is better off staying there and enjoying the protection they're buying.

 

[X-rated]

Paid more? I'll give up 30k to have a contract.

I certainly hope that's not the Union's new marketing slogan.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I'm not speaking for the union. Just like buying insurance, its my personal choice.

 

[X-rated]

I'm not speaking for the union. Just like buying insurance, its my personal choice.

Oh, it was just a little joke. Can't say I understand your logic though, but it's your choice. I work for MONEY and the cash is my insurance. Hope your choices work out well for you in any case.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Thanks X. I hope things work out well for you too. I only have a few years till retirement. MONEY is a good think but making a move to flex leaves me RED CIRCLED (pay frozen) again. Also a factor is the other QOL benefits here. Maybe we'll meet on the road and I'll buy the first cold beer.

 

[BE40Driver]

Flex offer

The Cons out weigh the Pros on this offer to the active FO pilots. The 401K match does not even cover the loss of the meal plan. Loss of Vacation time, domicile, bidding for schedule do to going to bottom of seniority list, and pay frozen for the next 4 to 7 years. QOL and Pay means more to me than a New Shiny Plane.

 

[asdf]

The 401K match is 8 percent (6% + (2% (paid 2x/year). The additional match is based on a formula which is age + years with the company.

Vacation is 3 weeks/year which is really three 5 day blocks. Monday through Friday. 4 days on each side of that week are protected days off.

QOL is probably about the same, think we have similar work rules. I gather this after talking to Flight Options guys in the FBO.

Bidding is on a 28 day cycle, most guys work 16/days per 28 days. The senior guys can get down to 14 days but we are paid per day and it directly affects your pay check.

Rotations are 4/5/6 day trips followed by 3/3/4 days off accordingly based on the length of a trip. IE. A 6 day trip would require 4 off; a 4 or 5 day trip would require a minimum of 3 off.

You can bid up to 7/8 day trips but at this time are not required, I've heard FO management believes we are spending too much money airlining guys on the shorter trips.

Guys in on of the new domiciles have a new scheduling practice which they can now be scheduled to work up to 8 day trips. I think this is similar to Flight OPtions. scheduling.

I get the feeling our new management (Flight Options, KR i guess) does not like our 4 day trips. I used to work a 4 on followed by 3 off, personally I liked it but it has been difficult to get these trips awarded recently.

We do not have union protection.

9 year FO pay is in the upper 80s low 90s. Based on 208 Days per year, which is really 208-15 (vacation) - 7 (PTO) = 186 actual travel work days. 8 days a year you can count for training (6 days long training; 2 days short training) so if you are dallas based those are non travel days.

 

[BE40Driver]

Quote: asdf The 401K match is 8 percent (6% + (2% (paid 2x/year). The additional match is based on a formula which is age + years with the company.
So new employees are 6%, which is less than our meal plan of 7K a year.

Vacation is 3 weeks/year which is really three 5 day blocks. Monday through Friday. 4 days on each side of that week are protected days off.

FO Vacation is 2 or 3 weeks/year which is really 8 day blocks with 7 days protected off on each end. That is 23 days off 2 or 3 times a year.

QOL is probably about the same, think we have similar work rules. I gather this after talking to Flight Options guys in the FBO.

Domiciles at FO live where you want, would have to move family and fees of buy/selling house. No company phone call during rest!

Bidding is on a 28 day cycle, most guys work 16/days per 28 days. The senior guys can get down to 14 days but we are paid per day and it directly affects your pay check.

Bid is twice a year for schedule and vacation. Have 7/7, 8/7, 16+2 flex based on seniority # in fleet.

Rotations are 4/5/6 day trips followed by 3/3/4 days off accordingly based on the length of a trip. IE. A 6 day trip would require 4 off; a 4 or 5 day trip would require a minimum of 3 off.

You can bid up to 7/8 day trips but at this time are not required, I've heard FO management believes we are spending too much money airlining guys on the shorter trips.

Guys in on of the new domiciles have a new scheduling practice which they can now be scheduled to work up to 8 day trips. I think this is similar to Flight OPtions. scheduling.

I get the feeling our new management (Flight Options, KR i guess) does not like our 4 day trips. I used to work a 4 on followed by 3 off, personally I liked it but it has been difficult to get these trips awarded recently.

Airline fees must be HI as you ride the airline 3 times a week vs our once a week. That is the hardest part of this job.

We do not have union protection.

9 year FO pay is in the upper 80s low 90s. Based on 208 Days per year, which is really 208-15 (vacation) - 7 (PTO) = 186 actual travel work days. 8 days a year you can count for training (6 days long training; 2 days short training) so if you are dallas based those are non travel days.

15 year Capt. pay BJ is 104K and will be frozen there for the next 7 years, bottom of seniority list not being able to bid anything decent for schedule.

Sorry I just don't see it.

 

[luckydog]

9 year FO pay is in the upper 80s low 90s. Based on 208 Days per year, which is really 208-15 (vacation) - 7 (PTO) = 186 actual travel work days. 8 days a year you can count for training (6 days long training; 2 days short training) so if you are dallas based those are non travel days.

15 year Capt. pay BJ is 104K and will be frozen there for the next 7 years, bottom of seniority list not being able to bid anything decent for schedule.

Sorry I just don't see it.

The travel budget probably high but the crew ratio is low and somehow FJ still makes money... go figure.

Your analysis is great if you're already a captain. The FO's might see if differently.

If no one takes the offer then maybe FJ can start hiring guys that actually want to be a Flex, not just guys that want to work anywhere.

 

[DirtyBeech]

New hire FO's have TWO vacations per year unless that changed recently, and folks not hired into one of the primary bases can and will be assigned 7-8 day lines.

Otherwise, pretty much on point.

 

[luckydog]

15 year Capt. pay BJ is 104K and will be frozen there for the next 7 years, bottom of seniority list not being able to bid anything decent for schedule.

Sorry I just don't see it.

So you're saying a 15 year Beechjet PIC makes the same as a Lear Jet PIC after 6 years working 195 days/year.

I can't see that either.

 

[asdf]

Yea, just trying to give you guys an idea at FJ as a First Officer.

I'd say a 9 year Lear PIC (most junior) will make about 120K-130K working 186 days per year. That 186 number is based on 208 days paid a year taking out vacation and paid days off. Some more senior Lear PICs are in the 150Ks but they do work more days.

Me as a 9 year First Officer my W1 said I made like 105K. Think my other blocks were in the low 90Ks, high 80Ks, and that is at 186 working days per year or 208 prior to vacation and paid days off.

And me personally, I'd prefer 8K in 401K match than a 8K meal plan. Just how I think and really the crew meals are plenty if you are flying revenue legs but if you are sitting standby you are going to have to spend your per diem on food.

But I think we do need to be careful when comparing each others pay as we need to make sure we are talking in the same amount of days worked per year. If Flight Options works 186 days per year and then takes out vacation/paid days off that could make the comparison not correct. Most Flexjet guys get paid for 208 days per year (16 days per bid period) but after vacation/PTO days that turns into 186 actual working days a year.

How many days a year does Flight Options pilots work? If you work 185 days per year paid and then get to take out your vacation and paid days off and are really only traveling or actually working 140 days a year that is not a bad deal at all.