First year pay at Continental

[ultrarunner]

On the issue of pay...They know that they could probably hire pilots for free and pay only their per diem for the first year and they would still get more than enough takers who want the big prize at the end: a major airline job with union representation.

That's a prize now adays? Union representation is a prize. I take it that you mean, ALPA, Teamsters, etc...

You GOTTA start doing stand-up densoo, cause that $hit is freaking priceless.

 

[densoo]

That's a prize now adays? Union representation is a prize. I take it that you mean, ALPA, Teamsters, etc...

You GOTTA start doing stand-up densoo, cause that $hit is freaking priceless.

The statement was "the big prize at the end: a major airline job with union representation." Maybe the prize is more the "job" than the "union" but the existence of this board and many like it indicate that supply of these jobs is well below the demand for them. Many still think that it is worth pursuing. You may not.

 

[FlyChicaga]

This seems like a fitting quote here.

"I don't give a d*mn how wild-eyed you get about salary and maximum monthly hours and all that. Too many pilots figure a union is just that--just fight with management and screw the company. Okay, ALPA does exist to get more benefits for pilots. So a lot of members go to meetings only when they've got a contract renewal coming up and they want ALPA to know thye want theirs. That's fine. Pilots should be interested in what their union is negotitating for. But if ALPA ever becomes just a labor outfit, pilots are gonna become nothing but godd*mned bus drivers. Safety--that's what pilots should be interested in."

From the book, "The Left Seat" by Robert Sterling. I think a lot of people here think ALPA somehow has all this mighty power to wield against management, so they can "get theirs." Sorry, doesn't work that way. YOU are ALPA. So if you don't like it, then YOU need to fix it. You determine who your leaders are. Each member has an equal responsibility to work to improve things. After all, these concessionary contracts didn't vote themselves in. I don't remember Dwane Woerth saying, "Here are you new pay cuts." So you can rag on your union all you want, saying they are worthless, but remember that a union is only as effective as its membership.

 

[Captain Overs]

Except there are times when ALPA has told the pilots to vote "yes" on something because it's good for everyone.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Except there are times when ALPA has told the pilots to vote "yes" on something because it's good for everyone.

You're elected representative leadership? They can say, "Look, we think this is best for us all." That does not mean you must blindly follow them. However, some faith should be placed in those with more information, which normally the average line pilot does not have. No, they are not always right. If the leadership does the pilot group injustice, then it is the job of the pilot group to replace them with folks who will better represent the interests of the whole.

I didn't grow up in a family of union chest-thumpers by any means. Actually, quite the opposite. However, I can see the benefits of ALPA, and it unsettles me to see pilots disown the union. ALPA does much more than negotiate and protect collective barganing agreements. Some lose sight of this. I do believe ALPA should do more "education" of various pilot groups, who continuously sign below-standard contracts to gain an upper hand, only to see said contracts continuously breached. It certainly shouldn't be the only thing ALPA does. See the quote above. There are some more pertinent issues, like changes to the rest and duty rules to improve safety.

We don't want to be treated like bus drivers. Well, we need to stop acting like them.

 

[Captain Overs]

Dude you're preaching to the choir when it comes to Unions. I was a member of the local 710 Teamsters in Chicago (UPS) when you were still in diapers. I've been a member of 3 Unions including my current one ALPA. I think what your talking more about is the MEC. I think ALPA National does a lot to protect my job in Washington. When I hear people complain about ALPA they most always are really complaining about their MEC.


Speaking of leadership. I still have some good frinds at XJT where you work. I remember hearing about how your MEC Chairman was recalled before the contract was ratified. He's still the Chair? Pilot empathy has a lot to do with things as well. Pilots can be lazy by nature and they don't always do what in their best interest as a whole. They put too much of that "Faith" in their leaders and never go down to the Union office and get their hands dirty and find out for themselves what's going on.

I'm not a Union chest thumper either as you mentioned. But, I believe a Union can be just as constructive and destructive.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Good points.

 

[Captain Overs]

Fly Chicaga,


I think you should see Dr. Corona about that "Lime and lager disease."

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Speaking of leadership. I still have some good frinds at XJT where you work. I remember hearing about how your MEC Chairman was recalled before the contract was ratified. He's still the Chair?

He was never recalled. Only the MEC can recall the Chairman. There is a lot more to this story so if you want specifics, drop me a line. But no, he wasn't recalled...not by a long shot.

-Neal

 

[Captain Overs]

I stand corrected on the recall. Didn't it go to a vote with the MEC?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I stand corrected on the recall. Didn't it go to a vote with the MEC?

No, because he wasn't even the MEC Chairman at the time. He was the MEC Executive Administrator as we were a single MEC with CAL. Drop me a line if you want more of the specifics but I don't see a reason to get into them in public.

-Neal

 

[PCL_128]

You're elected representative leadership? They can say, "Look, we think this is best for us all." That does not mean you must blindly follow them. However, some faith should be placed in those with more information, which normally the average line pilot does not have. No, they are not always right. If the leadership does the pilot group injustice, then it is the job of the pilot group to replace them with folks who will better represent the interests of the whole.

At least someone understands how this works.

If you are not happy with your union leadership, then replace them. At the next LEC meeting, call for a recall of your LEC status reps. You can look in the ALPA by-laws to see how the whole process works. Of course, this would require you to actually go to an LEC meeting. 90% of the membership doesn't even do that. Everyone just wants to sit around the crew lounge and complain about how the union is screwing them. If you have a problem with your union leadership, then recall them and run for a position yourself. Are you ready to devote your time and energy to helping the pilot group? Are you ready to sacrifice almost every day off you have towards union work? Are you ready to be screamed at over the phone by uninformed rank-and-file members that think they know what's going on behind the scenes but really have no clue?

Your MEC and LEC reps are always trying their best to do what is right for the pilot group. What motivation could they possibly have for screwing you over? The truth of the matter is, if you are voting for concessions at the direction of your MEC, then it's most likely because ALPA's Economic and Financial Analysis division determined that you have no choice if you want to continue having a job at all. ALPA certainly doesn't benefit by you taking a paycut. When your pay goes down, so do the dues that are collected from your check. In one breath, a pilot complains that ALPA only cares about collecting dues. In the next breath, he complains that ALPA is forcing him to take a paycut. Do you not see that these are two conflicting assertions?

The rank-and-file membership just likes to complain for the sake of complaining. Everyone likes a scapegoat, and ALPA is the favorite right now. Of course, as soon as someone gets himself into trouble, he comes running to his status rep begging for help. Then ALPA is his best friend. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[Pilotbob3]

For those that don't know, Wegmans is a very successful supermarket based out of Rochester, NY, with more then 70 stores throughout the northeast, mostly NY.

yea but Wegman's is too expensive....shop at Tops!

 

[h25b]

yea but Wegman's is too expensive....shop at Tops!

Wegman's was recently featured as Fortune's "best company to work for." That's one of the reasons I stick with Wegmans when I'm back in Western NY...