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First SLI thread of the day

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The email from the Mesaba union says there were several "anomalies". You make it sound like they are disputing the fact you are using class date DOH vs. sim date. That is not an "anomaly". I don't know what the mistakes (what I hope they are) are, but they are not disputing the fact you are using class date. I guarantee it. Maybe they are intentionally delaying so they can reach the MOU end date...oh wait... :smash: By the way, the way I see it, any more delays are detrimental to the Mesaba pilot group. From what I hear there are vacancies being run on the Pinnacle side for captain positions. I am not saying we are entitled to them, but the more Pinnacle people that get into those position, the better it is for them, and not us.

p.s. I am not accusing 9E of doing this on purpose. Just stating that they would be the ones gaining with delays, not XJ.
 
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bri5150 said:
The email from the Mesaba union says there were several "anomalies". You make it sound like they are disputing the fact you are using class date DOH vs. sim date. That is not an "anomaly". I don't know what the mistakes (what I hope they are) are, but they are not disputing the fact you are using class date. I guarantee it. Maybe they are intentionally delaying so they can reach the MOU end date...oh wait... :smash: By the way, the way I see it, any more delays are detrimental to the Mesaba pilot group. From what I hear there are vacancies being run on the Pinnacle side for captain positions. I am not saying we are entitled to them, but the more Pinnacle people that get into those position, the better it is for them, and not us.

p.s. I am not accusing 9E of doing this on purpose. Just stating that they would be the ones gaining with delays, not XJ.
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I am quite sure Higney is in a better position to know this than you are. If he says that the dispute is over DOH vs. class date, I am confident that is the case. And a bunch of XJ clowns that read a union email will not convince me they know the truth more than he does. Keep reading your "emails" and think you know the whole truth.
 
Easy way to settle the whole Who, What, Where, is to have the New Colgan boys take that we are the best attitude to the Jet training department. From what I hear that will sort the CA/FO list in no time at all.
 
If you want to consider those who have recently been reinstated due to a termination, that's in the list of "anomolies". As well as contesting XJ furloughs being on our active list when they are our active pilots.

The drama continues. I'm frankly sick of it- but that's politics.

The brunt of the issue remains class date/DOH.

Bloch still hasn't said anything.
 
I'm starting to get the feeling that the XJ MEC and SLI members think this ISL will not turn out good for their group, hence the grasping at straws.
 
The worst part is that DOH probably has nothing to do with the sorting of the award so all this bickering is over an unused data point that resides next to a name. Would we be in this same situation if we had disagreement over various pilots' employee number or birth dates?
 
DoinTime said:
The worst part is that DOH probably has nothing to do with the sorting of the award so all this bickering is over an unused data point that resides next to a name. Would we be in this same situation if we had disagreement over various pilots' employee number or birth dates?
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Maybe, your assumption is wrong.
 
TurboAWD said:
Quite possibly a true statement, other than how it effects your order on the current (seperate) lists.
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I would like to see an example of this. If this is true, it would have to be all category and/or relative. So with this example either the Mesaba (or 9E) 900 captains would have to be stapled to the bottom of the other group, or they would have to be meshed using relative or some kind of ratio. Same type of mess with the 200's. How do you integrate approx 80 pilots with approximately 700 (total guess)? What am I missing? :confused:
 
I think you got it (with the ratio thing, not the staple thing).

I don't know how it's going to come out. I don't _think_ DOH is going to be a big factor.

I do know it's going to be interesting reading.

I'm guessing that when it's all done, I still won't hold weekends off.
 
bri5150 said:
I would like to see an example of this. If this is true, it would have to be all category and/or relative. So with this example either the Mesaba (or 9E) 900 captains would have to be stapled to the bottom of the other group, or they would have to be meshed using relative or some kind of ratio. Same type of mess with the 200's. How do you integrate approx 80 pilots with approximately 700 (total guess)? What am I missing? :confused:
Click to expand...

There are no givens when it come to the definition of a category. Its entirely up to Bloch. One possible category could be "turbojet + Q400". In that case, with a ratioed sorting, the outcome for the first seniority block would be 650 PCL, 300 Mesaba and 150 Colgan (these are approximate numbers). So the rough ordering would be a repeating cycle of 4 PCL CAs, 2 MSA CAs and 1 CJC CA. With this category placed first the likely second block would be SF34 CA where 150 Mesaba would be ratio integrated with about 150 Colgan. A repeating cycle of of 1 Mesaba and 1 Colgan. Then the FO status of both of these blocks would be added in behind.

There is no magic in "status and category" and its almost universally used in arbitrated pilot seniority list integrations.
 
The best thing about the decision at this late date will be that it ends all of the speculation. This thing's gotten worse than a reality TV show, and not even a single T!t to make it interesting for the guys!
 
prtyprtyprncss said:
The best thing about the decision at this late date will be that it ends all of the speculation. This thing's gotten worse than a reality TV show, and not even a single T!t to make it interesting for the guys!
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You got that right. This looks (and is) a bit messy right now. I suspect most pilots just want to be able to get the same schedules and paychecks when this is done that they have right now (and, for FO's, the same upgrade prospects). In reality, the dynamics of the industry, company, and lists, means that it isn't really possible to keep everything "the same", but hopefully the solution comes as close as possible.

And then, hopefuly everyone comes to work, puts this behind them, works together to make this job as good as it can be going forward, and then gets on at Purple/DL/SWA/whatever floats your boat ASAP.
 
DoinTime said:
There are no givens when it come to the definition of a category. Its entirely up to Bloch. One possible category could be "turbojet + Q400". In that case, with a ratioed sorting, the outcome for the first seniority block would be 650 PCL, 300 Mesaba and 150 Colgan (these are approximate numbers). So the rough ordering would be a repeating cycle of 4 PCL CAs, 2 MSA CAs and 1 CJC CA. With this category placed first the likely second block would be SF34 CA where 150 Mesaba would be ratio integrated with about 150 Colgan. A repeating cycle of of 1 Mesaba and 1 Colgan. Then the FO status of both of these blocks would be added in behind.

There is no magic in "status and category" and its almost universally used in arbitrated pilot seniority list integrations.
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I understand that it CAN be done. It just doesn't seem logical at all. At least give a guy some type of credit for when he was hired. I guess we will see. Is that party still on at Murphs? After this last couple weeks we are going to need it more than ever.
 
TurboAWD said:
You got that right. This looks (and is) a bit messy right now. I suspect most pilots just want to be able to get the same schedules and paychecks when this is done that they have right now (and, for FO's, the same upgrade prospects). In reality, the dynamics of the industry, company, and lists, means that it isn't really possible to keep everything "the same", but hopefully the solution comes as close as possible.

And then, hopefuly everyone comes to work, puts this behind them, works together to make this job as good as it can be going forward, and then gets on at Purple/DL/SWA/whatever floats your boat ASAP.
Click to expand...

I am looking at these threads as good healthy discussions. What did we do before the Internet? We would all just be sitting around waiting for a decision. It is more fun to see other's opinions and argue them a bit.
 
Something I'm finally prepared to agree with xjhawk on... Tell us the college story please. Did it happen at college band camp?
 
How am I disagreeable on everything else? I am okay with a fair relative or DOH (with some short term fences to protect ( 9E and XJ ) 900's and fences to protect already on property Q's for Colgan protecting their FO upgrades and CA schedules for (current bases and planes). I WAS in favor or an across the board standard for DOH when I heard 9E's DOH was different. What changed my ming on DOH (nothing else)?

The fact that 9E's union has been terrible through this entire thing-mistakes-seniority grabbing staple like proposals-their willingness to staple entire groups or furloughs, colgan, and saab drivers because they have an elevated sense of self worth, not understanding that their fleet is far far far far far far from stable. Given that in the face of legal definitions of DOH when XJ's merger committee brought it up, all they can do is cry unfair and point fingers-when they are the problem with coming up with a fair integration. My lack of trust and respect is for those who are 9E on here who shout the loudest (you know who you are) and your SLI committee-and your MEC. I have the greatest respect and want something fair for the rest of you 9E people. Oh...wait, except that FO in MSP who told me to my face it was an asset transfer and the pilots were not coming with-oh you can be hired by Pinnacle if you want one of the open jobs-really? Oh and to that Captain in DTW who told me 5:1-kiss my .......then the couple others who said similar....all you I have no respect for
 
When all of this is over and we have an established sli based on doh I MAY tell the story...and for the record, every 9e pilot I've talked to in person has been nothing but cool, personable, reasonable, and respectful of everyone involved in the merger. What we seem to have on the forum here (and the other two forums, apparently) is a small handful of D!ck$ (or is that a handful of small D!ck$?) who hide behind the anonymity of the internet and make alot of noise. Here's hoping for the best for all of us!
 

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