First Pinnacle CRJ delivered to Mesaba.

[Smarta$$]

Read on our Pinnacle board that one of our crews delivered the first of our 15 CRJs to Mesaba MX.

Give our planes a good new home. And scrub off that phildo smell.

 

[ChickenSled]

Read on our Pinnacle board that one of our crews delivered the first of our 15 CRJs to Mesaba MX.

Give our planes a good new home. And scrub off that phildo smell.

Those have always been XJ's planes. Streeland just loaned them to Phil to get the 9E pilots to bend.

Didn't work too well, I voted YES this afternoon.

 

[Flyer1015]

Rats... we should have signed the management contract offer by March 31 this year...


NOT!

PT + his cronies = the devil

 

[Smarta$$]

Those have always been XJ's planes. Streeland just loaned them to Phil to get the 9E pilots to bend.

Didn't work too well, I voted YES this afternoon.

I am glad you voted yes, I did too. However, Those planes were built, delivered and on line at pinnacle before NW Filed for bankruptcy. They were never intended for mesaba.

Now, with the new ASA, I agree that phildo and steemland NEVER intended for pinnacle to have them back permanently. It was just a carrot. But they were our planes.

 

[gojo]

I was told last summer from one of your captains that per your agreement with NWA that they could take back planes on a 1 for 1 basis up to a specified number if you were to take on flying outside NWA. Did anyone else hear this? The timing and quanity agree.

 

[CrownandCoke]

I was told last summer from one of your captains that per your agreement with NWA that they could take back planes on a 1 for 1 basis up to a specified number if you were to take on flying outside NWA. Did anyone else hear this? The timing and quanity agree.

it sounds good, but I don't remember hearing that...

I think it's funny how our management is trying to play the "we're losing airplanes and flying" card against us. We, the pilot group, are like "we don't care. Take the airplanes away from us!!!"

 

[norskman2]

I was told last summer from one of your captains that per your agreement with NWA that they could take back planes on a 1 for 1 basis up to a specified number if you were to take on flying outside NWA. Did anyone else hear this? The timing and quanity agree.

No. The new 10-year service agreement PCL signed in Dec. 2006 did allow NWA to move the 17 -200s if a new TA wasn't reached by March of this year, which it wasn't. But the agreement locks in the remaining 100+ -200s for 10 years AND allows Pinnacle to pursue outside flying, which enabled them to buy Colgan and sign the Delta deal.

 

[flap operator]

What does everyone keep talking about Pinnacle losing 17 planes? You're having 15 transferred. The extra 2 are the ones that were originally delivered to XJ in 2005 as apart of the 15 we had PLANNED to take delivery of.

Fall 2005 = 601 and 602 delivered.
Summer 2006 = 601 goes to Compass
Late Summer 2007 = 601 returns to XJ
Fall 2007 = the 15 start their transfer to XJ from 9E.

Total CRJ fleet at Mesaba will total 17. Wether or not these 15 were INTENDED for Mesaba but ended up at 9E is a matter of debate. Only NWA and perhaps 9E/XJ mgmt know the real truth.


FO

 

[DoinTime]

Wether or not these 15 were INTENDED for Mesaba but ended up at 9E is a matter of debate.

Its not much a debate. PCL received their last CRJ prior to XJ receiving their first. The CRJ that just went to XJ was built for PCL and delivered prior to the announcement that XJ would even be a CJR operator. There isn't much latitude in arguing where these aircraft were "intended" to go.

If there was an intention of these planes going somewhere other than where they ended up it would be nothing more than a boardroom innuendo. In fact I would bet that if they were intended to go anywhere other than PCL I would bet it was Big Sky.

 

[flap operator]

Time - that was my point. Nobody can say those 15 were intended for Mesaba or anyone else other than who they were delivered to. Nobody knows, certainly not a regular line pilot. The comment that was made bychickensled was complete speculation and off the cuff. Debateable was a friendly way for calling BS on the orginal comment.


FO

 

[DoinTime]

FO....That was some deep contemplation there. I'll bet you need a drink or a cigarette now. Come to think of it, so do I. I'll be right over!

 

[ChickenSled]

Time - that was my point. Nobody can say those 15 were intended for Mesaba or anyone else other than who they were delivered to. Nobody knows, certainly not a regular line pilot. The comment that was made bychickensled was complete speculation and off the cuff. Debateable was a friendly way for calling BS on the orginal comment.


FO

Sorry, I will restate. My "opinion" was based on the timeline since the bankruptcy. They were originally 9E's ships, sorry if I made it seem otherwise.

 

[Flyer1015]

But they were our planes.

"Our" planes is subjective. We don't own any airplanes. Actually, scratch that, we just bought the first two CRJ900s, and are getting more for Delta Connection flying. But the NWA Airlink CRJs are owned by NWA, and leased to us. These planes are "ours" in the sense that we lease them. We don't own them.

Someone can correct me, but I'm pretty sure all our 200s are leased from NWA.

 

[Lazy8]

"Our" planes is subjective. We don't own any airplanes. Actually, scratch that, we just bought the first two CRJ900s, and are getting more for Delta Connection flying. But the NWA Airlink CRJs are owned by NWA, and leased to us. These planes are "ours" in the sense that we lease them. We don't own them.

Someone can correct me, but I'm pretty sure all our 200s are leased from NWA.

Bank(s) (I think Wells Fargo...possible others) own the aircraft. Leased to NWA. Subleased to Pinnacle.

 

[CoATP]

b.t.w. XJ could not spare the crew to ferry the plane. A 9E plane had to do it and deadhead out. 2 a/c a month for 7 months or so. 9E got 1.5 mil for having to fly the extra planes plus the fees for departure for operating them. That owul djust about pay for a fair contract but it probably went for phil's christmas bonus.

 

[liv'n_on_credit]

But the agreement locks in the remaining 100+ -200s for 10 years

Well, not exactly. According to the ASA, NWA can start taking more CRJ's from Pinnacle if Pinnacle flies more than 20 jets for another carrier, i.e. Delta.

Pinnacle will be flying 16 jets for Delta very soon, and 16 is not far away from 20. After they fly jet #20 for Delta, NWA starts pulling the CRJ's on a one-for-two basis. Meaning they pull one CRJ for every two planes Pinnacle flies for Delta. But...NWA can only pull up to 20 CRJ's for this reason.

 

[koepp]

The highlights of the revised 2006 Pinnacle-NWA airline service agreement (ASA) is outlined in the 2006 annual report (Form 10K). Everything Liv'n on credit just wrote is toward the bottom of page 7. NWA can only pull 20 airplanes total and no more than 5 in any 12-month period.

 

[norskman2]

The highlights of the revised 2006 Pinnacle-NWA airline service agreement (ASA) is outlined in the 2006 annual report (Form 10K). Everything Liv'n on credit just wrote is toward the bottom of page 7. NWA can only pull 20 airplanes total and no more than 5 in any 12-month period.

Interesting, because I believe I read a statement from PCL somewhere that the first 16 -900s for DAL will not be profitable until they get 20 or more.

 

[WildBlue]

After watching this airplane merry-go-round between Mesaba and Pinnacle, nee Express I, it doesn't make a hill of beans difference where these planes start or end. In five years, when Mesaba is negotiating their contract, half their RJs and 900s could end up at Pinnacle. It is a management shell game that is brought up from time to time by pilots to simply start an arguement.

The Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots are mutual victims of a management group that literally hates its own employees. And, by the way, the feeling is mutual. If PT were on fire, I would not relax the bladder sphincter to help put him out.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Deleted.....Its a dead horse

 

[CrownandCoke]

The Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots are mutual victims of a management group that literally hates its own employees. And, by the way, the feeling is mutual. If PT were on fire, I would not relax the bladder sphincter to help put him out.

deleted

 

[xjcaptain]

I just hope the MX on these is better than that on the Saabs (360 series) that we got from 9E. Total junk, and months of down time.

 

[DoinTime]

I just hope the MX on these is better than that on the Saabs (360 series) that we got from 9E. Total junk, and months of down time.

These aren't 20+ year old Saabs your getting here. None of these CRJ's are even close to their first heavy check.

 

[saabservant]

by the way, any idea if a mediator's release is in the picture? Or will you guys have to wait for a new administration? (hint to all you right-wingers and republicans...)

You may love the bushies, but they love you too-chained to your aircraft and your old contract!

 

[xjcaptain]

These aren't 20+ year old Saabs your getting here. None of these CRJ's are even close to their first heavy check.

Neither were those. When we got them they were about 10 - 11 years old. Apparently 9E did the absolute minimum MX required by FARs. They did absolutely none of the "recommended" mx that Saab would prefer to have done. Nearly each one we received spent nearly a month fixing the obvious (and I mean VERY obvious) defects. It took the next year or two to fix the thousands of other things that kept coming up with these aircraft. Just a totally different corporate culture regarding mx and safety. I hope I am wrong about the 200's, but past history with 9E when it comes to safety and mx would show something different.

 

[Rook]

Neither were those. When we got them they were about 10 - 11 years old. Apparently 9E did the absolute minimum MX required by FARs. They did absolutely none of the "recommended" mx that Saab would prefer to have done. Nearly each one we received spent nearly a month fixing the obvious (and I mean VERY obvious) defects. It took the next year or two to fix the thousands of other things that kept coming up with these aircraft. Just a totally different corporate culture regarding mx and safety. I hope I am wrong about the 200's, but past history with 9E when it comes to safety and mx would show something different.

Why do you have such a hard-on for 9E?

 

[SEVEN]

Why do you have such a hard-on for 9E?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050317X00323&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20041015X01633&ntsbno=DCA05MA003&akey=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070501X00494&key=1

 

[xjcaptain]

Why do you have such a hard-on for 9E?

Personal experience on a flight I was on, as well as having a relative killed on one of their flights. Simple enough?

 

[Rook]

Personal experience on a flight I was on, as well as having a relative killed on one of their flights. Simple enough?

Did you bring your personal experience to the crew's attention? And if your relative was killed in Hibbing, that's unfortunate. All the U.S. majors (pax) have had fatal accidents attributed to pilot error. Do you have as much resentment for them as well?

 

[Doug Parker]

All the U.S. majors (pax) have had fatal accidents attributed to pilot error. Do you have as much resentment for them as well?

Correction -

America West never killed any pax.

Southwest never killed any pax (barring the dude that was suffocated by fellow pax).



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