First Pinnacle CRJ delivered to Mesaba.

[CrownandCoke]

The Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots are mutual victims of a management group that literally hates its own employees. And, by the way, the feeling is mutual. If PT were on fire, I would not relax the bladder sphincter to help put him out.

deleted

 

[xjcaptain]

I just hope the MX on these is better than that on the Saabs (360 series) that we got from 9E. Total junk, and months of down time.

 

[DoinTime]

I just hope the MX on these is better than that on the Saabs (360 series) that we got from 9E. Total junk, and months of down time.

These aren't 20+ year old Saabs your getting here. None of these CRJ's are even close to their first heavy check.

 

[saabservant]

by the way, any idea if a mediator's release is in the picture? Or will you guys have to wait for a new administration? (hint to all you right-wingers and republicans...)

You may love the bushies, but they love you too-chained to your aircraft and your old contract!

 

[xjcaptain]

These aren't 20+ year old Saabs your getting here. None of these CRJ's are even close to their first heavy check.

Neither were those. When we got them they were about 10 - 11 years old. Apparently 9E did the absolute minimum MX required by FARs. They did absolutely none of the "recommended" mx that Saab would prefer to have done. Nearly each one we received spent nearly a month fixing the obvious (and I mean VERY obvious) defects. It took the next year or two to fix the thousands of other things that kept coming up with these aircraft. Just a totally different corporate culture regarding mx and safety. I hope I am wrong about the 200's, but past history with 9E when it comes to safety and mx would show something different.

 

[Rook]

Neither were those. When we got them they were about 10 - 11 years old. Apparently 9E did the absolute minimum MX required by FARs. They did absolutely none of the "recommended" mx that Saab would prefer to have done. Nearly each one we received spent nearly a month fixing the obvious (and I mean VERY obvious) defects. It took the next year or two to fix the thousands of other things that kept coming up with these aircraft. Just a totally different corporate culture regarding mx and safety. I hope I am wrong about the 200's, but past history with 9E when it comes to safety and mx would show something different.

Why do you have such a hard-on for 9E?

 

[SEVEN]

Why do you have such a hard-on for 9E?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050317X00323&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20041015X01633&ntsbno=DCA05MA003&akey=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070501X00494&key=1

 

[xjcaptain]

Why do you have such a hard-on for 9E?

Personal experience on a flight I was on, as well as having a relative killed on one of their flights. Simple enough?

 

[Rook]

Personal experience on a flight I was on, as well as having a relative killed on one of their flights. Simple enough?

Did you bring your personal experience to the crew's attention? And if your relative was killed in Hibbing, that's unfortunate. All the U.S. majors (pax) have had fatal accidents attributed to pilot error. Do you have as much resentment for them as well?

 

[Doug Parker]

All the U.S. majors (pax) have had fatal accidents attributed to pilot error. Do you have as much resentment for them as well?

Correction -

America West never killed any pax.

Southwest never killed any pax (barring the dude that was suffocated by fellow pax).



.

 

[Rook]

Correction -

America West never killed any pax.

Southwest never killed any pax (barring the dude that was suffocated by fellow pax).



.

America West hasn't, USAir has. SWA has. MDW overrun.

 

[Rook]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050317X00323&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20041015X01633&ntsbno=DCA05MA003&akey=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070501X00494&key=1

I'm pretty sure the Comair LEX accident was probably 9E's fault too right?

 

[SEVEN]

I'm pretty sure the Comair LEX accident was probably 9E's fault too right?

The difference between Comair and Pinnacle is that Pinnacle has a history of accidents and incidents all attributed to POOR decision making by the flight crew. These are just 3 examples I listed. There are many more incidents and violation after violation I don't have time to mention. This stuff is not made up. There is no room for debate and no reason to deny the truth.

 

[Rook]

There are many more incidents and violation after violation I don't have time to mention. This stuff is not made up. There is no room for debate and no reason to deny the truth.

Besides TVC, 3701 and MKE; I don't know about any incidents and violations. The Comair accident was very tragic, along with the 1997 120 accident in Monroe. You talk about many more than what was mentioned. I'm not calling you out for B.S. It's just that I think you're singling one group out more than others.

The Hibbing accident is the only pax 9E accident with loss of life that I can think of. (one too many of course) But don't smear the whole group as being un-airworthy.

 

[PCL_128]

Personal experience on a flight I was on, as well as having a relative killed on one of their flights. Simple enough?

I've had unpleasant experiences on Mesaba flights plenty of times. I commuted on you guys for two years, so I saw more than a few unprofessional crews, including a couple of times that they scared the crap out of me on visual approaches. Does that mean that I have something against the entire XJ group? Of course not. The overwhelming majority of XJ crews are extremely professional. It's just a few dimwits here and there. How can you condemn the entire PCL group based on a flight you were on? Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

I've had unpleasant experiences on Mesaba flights plenty of times. I commuted on you guys for two years, so I saw more than a few unprofessional crews, including a couple of times that they scared the crap out of me on visual approaches. Does that mean that I have something against the entire XJ group? Of course not. The overwhelming majority of XJ crews are extremely professional. It's just a few dimwits here and there. How can you condemn the entire PCL group based on a flight you were on? Absolutely ridiculous.

Agreed. We'll see how we do when we get the first of our 1500 hour Saab Captains online that think that a Captain seat is "just flying the plane from the other seat." Not so. I just pray that we don't bend any metal due to the inexperience factor. When do you all think that this name calling stuff can end?

MM

 

[SEVEN]

When do you all think that this name calling stuff can end?

MM

When 9E can manage to go 2 years without another hull loss.

 

[Rook]

When 9E can manage to go 2 years without another hull loss.

Ok we know you're a 9E hater. Let go of your hate bro. I could buy you some cranberry juice if it helps with your cramps.

 

[xjcaptain]

I've had unpleasant experiences on Mesaba flights plenty of times. I commuted on you guys for two years, so I saw more than a few unprofessional crews, including a couple of times that they scared the crap out of me on visual approaches. Does that mean that I have something against the entire XJ group? Of course not. The overwhelming majority of XJ crews are extremely professional. It's just a few dimwits here and there. How can you condemn the entire PCL group based on a flight you were on? Absolutely ridiculous.

I didn't say EVEY crew there is bad. What I am saying that ExpressI/ExpressII/Pinnacle has had a documented history of poor decision making / hull losses etc. As far as the flight that I referred to, I was deadheading with my crew in the cabin, and saw several things so obviously unsafe that I had the aircraft return to the gate. Yes it was that bad. I am also not saying that Mesaba crews are perfect by any means, but there is most definatly a difference in the safety culture between the two airlines. We have many crews that openly refuse to deadhead on 9E. I wish it didn't have to be that way. How many at 9E will not fly XJ for safety reasons? This isn't to start a flame war since we both do battle with big brother NWA. I don't know what the answer is for 9E but I suspect it is a change that has to start at the top of the company and work down, and I don't see that happening any time soon. As far as you getting the crap scared out of you on visual approaches...what exactly happened? I'm curious what could have "scared" you? If you were "scared" you should have brought it to the attention of the crew, the union, and then the company and the FAA in that order if you didn't get the desired answers. Did you do any of the above? In my situation I did.

 

[SEVEN]

Ok we know you're a 9E hater. Let go of your hate bro. I could buy you some cranberry juice if it helps with your cramps.

I don't hate 9E. I'm just stating the facts. If you think 9E is a great airline with a great safety record, that's fine. We just happen to disagree.