First Pinnacle CRJ delivered to Mesaba.

[405]

When 9E can manage to go 2 years without another hull loss.

What's your definition of hull loss?

 

[SEVEN]

What's your definition of hull loss?

An aircraft damaged to the extent that it is not economically feasible to repair it.

 

[PCL_128]

An aircraft damaged to the extent that it is not economically feasible to repair it.

Care to wager on how many hull losses Pinnacle has had? I'll give you a clue: it's a lot less than you think.

 

[Flyer1015]

If you were "scared" you should have brought it to the attention of the crew, the union, and then the company and the FAA in that order if you didn't get the desired answers. Did you do any of the above? In my situation I did.

I certainly hope you pushed it no further than the union level. No reason to rat out fellow crewmembers to the company or FAA. Let the union handle it.

 

[Flyer1015]

The difference between Comair and Pinnacle is that Pinnacle has a history of accidents and incidents all attributed to POOR decision making by the flight crew.

Not exactly sure Comair is the best one to use there...

 

[xjcaptain]

I certainly hope you pushed it no further than the union level. No reason to rat out fellow crewmembers to the company or FAA. Let the union handle it.

I agree let the union look at it first. If that doesn't fix the problem, then it is your responsibility to take it further. If somebody is that unnsafe, it may be your family flying with that crew in the future. If somebody is unsafe "ratting" them out does nothing but make the industry safer. Don't be thin skinned. Protecting unsafe pilots hurts us all.

 

[xjhawk]

Okay, let me just add something to this thead, stop pointing fingers and calling names. I know this for what it is, its detrimental to our profession. Here are a couple things to think about. accidents/incidents are cause by a number of factors, including unprofessionalism, inexperience, and just bad luck (lack of sleep, bad weather then multiple failures). I am an XJ pilot, and I know this, there are pleanty of good 9E pilots, I have met them on many occasions. Then there are the few tools I have met that worked at 9E (oh by the way, there are tools at XJ too). The bottom line is that 9E had growing pains, there is no arguing that. The thing that needs to happen is that we (XJ), need to learn from that and prevent our growing pains.

By growing pains I mean training our less experienced captains and first officers to a higher level before releasing them to the line. By policing the idiots out there who act like cocks infront of everyone. What do I mean by that? Lets see, I saw a new first officer in the crew room that was wearing his aviator style sunglasses in the crew room......thats a tool. Or first officers who have only a few months at the company, who complain that they are on reserve.....or have not upgraded yet.......wow

 

[CrownandCoke]

Okay, let me just add something to this thead, stop pointing fingers and calling names. I know this for what it is, its detrimental to our profession. Here are a couple things to think about. accidents/incidents are cause by a number of factors, including unprofessionalism, inexperience, and just bad luck (lack of sleep, bad weather then multiple failures). I am an XJ pilot, and I know this, there are pleanty of good 9E pilots, I have met them on many occasions. Then there are the few tools I have met that worked at 9E (oh by the way, there are tools at XJ too). The bottom line is that 9E had growing pains, there is no arguing that. The thing that needs to happen is that we (XJ), need to learn from that and prevent our growing pains.

By growing pains I mean training our less experienced captains and first officers to a higher level before releasing them to the line. By policing the idiots out there who act like cocks infront of everyone. What do I mean by that? Lets see, I saw a new first officer in the crew room that was wearing his aviator style sunglasses in the crew room......thats a tool. Or first officers who have only a few months at the company, who complain that they are on reserve.....or have not upgraded yet.......wow

*clap*clap*clap*

Thanks. Not all of us 9E pilots are bad. Most of us are level-headed, skilled pilots. I think Seven has his thong on the wrong way, and needs to stop the hate of 9E. Doesn't help our cause toward a good contract and makes him look like a whiny 16 year old girl who didn't get her dad's Lincoln keys.

 

[XJohXJ]

Good luck in the coming days, PCL guys and gals. I hope you get a good contract that blows Mesaba's out of the water. Now THAT is a win we could all share in to the betterment of the whole industry.

Give 'em h#ll.

 

[bouttime]

Just talked to a friend who works at XJ, he said they have 6 people in class with less than 300 hours. But they know not to wear their sunglasses, backpacks, and IPOD's in the terminal. :smash:

 

[Raskal]

Good luck in the coming days, PCL guys and gals. I hope you get a good contract that blows Mesaba's out of the water. Now THAT is a win we could all share in to the betterment of the whole industry.

Give 'em h#ll.

I second that. Good luck. :beer:

 

[Raskal]

Just talked to a friend who works at XJ, he said they have 6 people in class with less than 300 hours. But they know not to wear their sunglasses, backpacks, and IPOD's in the terminal. :smash:

I was/am in that class before it split up (lots of pilots), and I can't confirm <300, but I can say 6 at <500...it was a bit surprising, I wish them luck. I don't know if I would've wanted to try this at their level.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

These XJ guys on their high horses must have one heck of a hard-on for FedEx too since they are talking about 9E's large amount of hull losses. (Which I believe only 2 have been w/o- the Hibbing plane and the 3701 plane).

It has always amazed me the haughtiness of a number the XJ pilots with their working conditions. Faux bankruptcy, furlough..and still the cocks of the wok. Whatever.

There were certainly some bad apples at 9E and still are... any airline that believes they don't have any is fooling itself.

Good luck to 9E with the new contract... If I'm not called out on rsv on Dec 1, I'll proudly walk in ATL with you guys.

 

[WildBlue]

Pinnacle has experienced two hull losses in its history. TVC and MKE were both returned to service.

For all the Pinnacle guys on here: I have heard this bashing from some of the Mesaba guys for years. For some reason someone told them that they were the golden boys of the NWA system. Ignore them.

In the coming days, our friends at Mesaba will experience what many of us have enjoyed for several years now; namely, the pleasure of flying a high-performance aircraft with a less than 1,000 hour pilot in the seat next to you. And this will not be flying Saabs in and out of Fargo. To all my friends at Mesaba, be very careful over the next few years. You will be on your own in the flight deck and flying in some very dense traffic areas. Maybe after this experience, some of the wise acres on this board will have a greater appreciation for some of the challenges we have dealt with on the safety side. What until you guys have been starved by Northwest who will be cutting every expense possible in order to plump you up for the inevitable IPO. What until NW starves your training side and clamps down on anything that resembles an expense for safety.

You think bankruptcy was bad!

 

[Raskal]

Pinnacle has experienced two hull losses in its history. TVC and MKE were both returned to service.

For all the Pinnacle guys on here: I have heard this bashing from some of the Mesaba guys for years. For some reason someone told them that they were the golden boys of the NWA system. Ignore them.

In the coming days, our friends at Mesaba will experience what many of us have enjoyed for several years now; namely, the pleasure of flying a high-performance aircraft with a less than 1,000 hour pilot in the seat next to you. And this will not be flying Saabs in and out of Fargo. To all my friends at Mesaba, be very careful over the next few years. You will be on your own in the flight deck and flying in some very dense traffic areas. Maybe after this experience, some of the wise acres on this board will have a greater appreciation for some of the challenges we have dealt with on the safety side. What until you guys have been starved by Northwest who will be cutting every expense possible in order to plump you up for the inevitable IPO. What until NW starves your training side and clamps down on anything that resembles an expense for safety.

You think bankruptcy was bad!

It's strange, but I have known Mesaba guys for a number of years and now I'm on the property as an employee. I also have friends at Pinnacle.

I have yet to encounter or any general attitude at XJ toward Pinnacle, negative or otherwise. In fact, when you guys do come up in discussion it is usually in reference to the hard time all of you are experiencing right now and everyone I've ever spoken with sincerely hopes things work out well.

You're right when you say bad apples are a fact with any large group but it goes for both sides and, for some unknown reason, many of those apples tend to congregate here at flightinfo. Don't take a couple of posts here as the attitude of an entire pilot body. It simply isn't true. As for the 'golden boy' thing, I have seen exactly the opposite. A great majority of guys here are very happy with the growth but are also looking down the road with a very cautious eye. No one that is past the cocky 600 hour wonder stage has forgotten how quickly things can turn, especially where NWA management is involved.

Seriously, best of luck for all of you and your families. Believe it or not, you have more people pulling for you than you think.

 

[saabservant]

I think wildblue is right on...Mesaba is already way behind on training, and anyone at the G.O. with any ability to correct the problems is afraid to spend money and make a decision.
During our last growth period, the average new-hire had about 1500 hours, now it is about 600, with every class having some under 500. The current class has a few at less than 400!
Not necessarily a safety problem, if they are sharp and have a good attitude, and are not paired up with a less than two-year capt. who has never been through a winter or thunderstorm season...

Keep up the fight for a new contract, we will be behind you at the end game.

 

[xjhawk]

Has anyone heard that there was a new agreement signed with the company about picking up flying in december. Doubletime baby! I think it only counts for a one time deal only. So pick up that high time day trip on your day off. You will be making some cashola for a days work.

 

[flyf15]

Has anyone heard that there was a new agreement signed with the company about picking up flying in december. Doubletime baby! I think it only counts for a one time deal only. So pick up that high time day trip on your day off. You will be making some cashola for a days work.

Or you could realize that FO pay, even when doubled, is pathetically sad and wouldn't be worth (at least my) precious little time off to come in for. Don't help the company out. Starve them of pilots, make them hurt. If they want pilots to be more productive and have more of them.. make them open up your contract and have it amended to make it better instead of a temporary bandaid when they really need it only.

Its your job to make the company always be out of options and be desperate, not to help them out when they get in a tough spot.

 

[machaf]

I'm not sure what the deal is with Mesaba pilots. Everytime I ride on them, neither captain or fo is friendly when I go up to say hi. The FA's are always pleasant.
Anytime I see them in the airport, they pretty much ignore you, even if you say Hi, give them a nod, or just give them a slight wave with your hand.

Every Mesaba guy I've had on the jumpseat is very friendly. I don't know what the deal is.

Just a trend i've noticed over the last year or so...

 

[Andrew_VT]

I don't know what the deal is.

Just a trend i've noticed over the last year or so...

I was going to defend XJ then I searched your prior posts.

You're very defensive of pinnacle and you couldn't imagine flying 'one of those little bug smashers all day' (my paraphrase).

It's probably not the xj pilot group...it's probably you.