FedEX HKG LOA is out, and boy is it funny...

[propjob27]

I can not BELIEVE that this was voted in favor of 11-1 by our Union. Between this and DW's stand on the retro age 60 fiasco, I don't wear an ALPA pin or Lanyard anymore.

For MEM, ANC, and LAX guys who don't want to take the time to read the whole thing (and/or who aren't lawyers) before voting, here is a summary:


1--Housing allowance of $2700/mo (LOA B.2.d.i) if you rent. You'll get $1300/mo (LOA B.2.d.ii) if you buy. You have to live within 100 miles (LOA B.2.d.iii) of HKG (assuming HKG is the "base airport") Please remember that a "normal" apartment big enough to house you, your wife, and one kid is roughly 8500++ USD per month in any desirable area of HKG, and that you are RENTING, and not building equity in anything.

2--Remember the two hour limit on ground transport? That's gone. Get ready for a midnight van ride to Guangzhou for a 3 am show (LOA sect. G).

3--Want to go back to visit the folks stateside? You'll be able to do just that (along with your family) on an annual basis. . . in coach class. . . after having been in your new base for two years (LOA B.2.f). Perhaps after that amount of time you will have forgotten about Grandma. Out of sight out of mind?

4--Relocation allowance of $10K or 79 credit hours (contract 6.C.2) is now just $10,000 (LOA B.2.a) and you'll get an additional $5000. . . after 4 YEARS of staying in your new base. (LOA B.2.b)

5--Minimum commitment is 2 years (LOA B.2). Let's be conservative and assume you are single with no wife and kids, and can live in a very nice van down by the river in HKG for $6000/mo. You're paying $3,300 out of pocket (utilities aside) for rent (which we all know it lost money). . . $3300/mo for min commitment of 24 months equals your cost for living in HKG for two years-- $79,200!! Remember, that's for the van down by the river. . .

6--We're getting "tax equalization." In other words, you will pay the exact same taxes as if you lived in the USA. Isn't that the whole point of being an ex-pat, to avoid paying US Federal income tax (on the 1st 84K anyway) Take away that benefit, and still expect guys to live in THE most expensive, one of the MOST polluted (complete with air you can see), and crowded cities in the world?? I have never, ever, in the history of any US company basing employees overseas, heard of taking away the tax benefit Is FedEX honing its stand-up routine or what?

I hope FedEX is ready to fill the FO side of HKG with new hires. And I hope FedEX is ready to change its typical hiring practice. I'd love to listen in on the phone call from Kim to the typical, 38 year old, ex-military guy, with a wife and 3 kids... "Hello, congrats, you are hired at FedEX and we're ready to offer you a class date! You'll be going to Hong Kong, the most expensive city for ex-pat housing in the world. You can not afford to bring your wife, and we will not assist you in any way at all in schooling your children, because that only costs around $15,000 per year, EACH. And, we're going to pay you 52 bucks an hour! Welcome aboard!"

FedEX is going to need start hiring guys like the Commuter airlines do. 24 years old, no wife, no kids, little debt, still getting money from mom and dad, still suffering from Shiny Jet Syndrome, and willing to take ANY offer to get out of their CFI job.

 

[AlbieF15]

Which way to vote?

As a guy who would not go overseas anyway I have two choices:

Option 1--support my union MEC and vote for this thing. The benefit to me is the bid gets here sooner and perhaps I can upgrade or get more senior in my seat. I show "unity" and support for the guys who worked this out. Realize with our current CBA the company doesn't have to offer anything anyway, so take what we can get.

Option 2--vote against it. After watching the whole "accepted fares" fiasco develop and seeing how our company can read any contract between the lines to their advantage, I have doubts about anyone getting the "full COLA". I also think the rent verses own thing is more than a little bogus. Why penalize a guy who wants to invest some of that money in foreign real estate? If the company pays the money--who cares how the guy or gal spends it? I think the travel to/from at coach is pretty scuzzy. As someone pointed out, with the great European train system, I think the 100 nm rule to keep you on the plantation is bogus as well. Lux City is an expat friendly place--but you can't move there under this LOA. All of these may have some input from the host country, but overall it seems to me the company is just trying to get all it can in concessions from the crew force on the cheap.

Of course--lots of folks will say "just don't bid it". Well...I'm not going to. For those of you seriuosly considering bidding these FDAs, my question is "how do you want ME to vote? and why?" I don't want to throw you under the bus with ZERO extra benefits if you go over there, but at the same time I think with a little resolve we might be able to get a better deal. Is playing poker and holding out for more with the chance of getting nothing extra what you want, or do you want me to ink it?

Honestly--I think the MEC's input is pretty much useless to my opinion at this point. I don't see anyone from that crowd going over there, so I don't think they are going to go to mat on this unless we throw it back. So--the 40k question--sign this thing or risk getting nothing on a better deal? So who is going to Europe or HK and how do you want me to vote?

 

[AV80R]

For those of you seriuosly considering bidding these FDAs, my question is "how do you want ME to vote? and why?" I don't want to throw you under the bus with ZERO extra benefits if you go over there, but at the same time I think with a little resolve we might be able to get a better deal. Is playing poker and holding out for more with the chance of getting nothing extra what you want, or do you want me to ink it?...So--the 40k question--sign this thing or risk getting nothing on a better deal? So who is going to Europe or HK and how do you want me to vote?

Looking out for others and not just me-me-me! Wow, what a concept - wish more pilots adopted your style Albie! (I’m talking pilots in general - not Fedex)

 

[OCP]

You should do your housing research a little better. $8000 USD + would be an ultra high end place in the heart of the city. A quick search and I see that average high priced places are $15,000 HKG or about $2000 USD per month.

http://hongkong.craigslist.org/apa/

1 USD = 7.81659 HKD
Money conversion:
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi

 

[Captain X]

I can not BELIEVE that this was voted in favor of 11-1 by our Union.

Assuming that any LOAs go to the pilot group for membership ratification, maybe that one dissenting vote is a sign that you should all vote NO.

Some MECs <---- INSIST they must have a unanimous vote to show "unity" rather than the individual reps voting how they feel is best for their constituents.

It also makes it easy to pass the buck if it ratifies: "Well, we voted to send it to you guys to see if it was worth it and it passed so obviously it's a good thing!"

Here's a note to MEC reps. If you vote YES to send a TA or LOA out to me, then I consider you to have voted YES on said TA or LOA, REGARDLESS of how you tell me you vote later. As a rep, if you personally think it is worthy of a NO vote, VOTE NO to send it to your constituency. If you think it is worht a YES vote, VOTE YES to send it out.

 

[LaidOffAgain]

Why Vote Yes?

As a guy who would not go overseas anyway I have two choices:

Option 1--support my union MEC and vote for this thing. The benefit to me is the bid gets here sooner and perhaps I can upgrade or get more senior in my seat. I show "unity" and support for the guys who worked this out. Realize with our current CBA the company doesn't have to offer anything anyway, so take what we can get.

Option 2--vote against it. After watching the whole "accepted fares" fiasco develop and seeing how our company can read any contract between the lines to their advantage, I have doubts about anyone getting the "full COLA". I also think the rent verses own thing is more than a little bogus. Why penalize a guy who wants to invest some of that money in foreign real estate? If the company pays the money--who cares how the guy or gal spends it? I think the travel to/from at coach is pretty scuzzy. As someone pointed out, with the great European train system, I think the 100 nm rule to keep you on the plantation is bogus as well. Lux City is an expat friendly place--but you can't move there under this LOA. All of these may have some input from the host country, but overall it seems to me the company is just trying to get all it can in concessions from the crew force on the cheap.

Of course--lots of folks will say "just don't bid it". Well...I'm not going to. For those of you seriuosly considering bidding these FDAs, my question is "how do you want ME to vote? and why?" I don't want to throw you under the bus with ZERO extra benefits if you go over there, but at the same time I think with a little resolve we might be able to get a better deal. Is playing poker and holding out for more with the chance of getting nothing extra what you want, or do you want me to ink it?

Honestly--I think the MEC's input is pretty much useless to my opinion at this point. I don't see anyone from that crowd going over there, so I don't think they are going to go to mat on this unless we throw it back. So--the 40k question--sign this thing or risk getting nothing on a better deal? So who is going to Europe or HK and how do you want me to vote?

Albie,
I know I will be moving back if this is passed. The only person to vote against this LOA is the one living out here that know all the expenses that would be and will be occurring in HKG. I could understand how important upgrading more quickly might be a deciding factor, but what your voting on is not just for these two domiciles, but setting a standard for any future domiciles that may open in the future.

Maybe as an empty nester in 10 years you might want to do something like Paris, but if this is the LOA in place then I doubt it. Would take too much out of pocket money to live there.

For anyone in SFS to go to HKG it would be an enormous pay cut. Now no Expat 84k exemption, much more for housing, tax equalization, no school allowance, all new appliances(220v), can't ship household goods or car(left hand drive) pollution, and doesn't all those good things like bird flu and sars seem to originate somewhere over here?

Just a few things to keep in mind.

 

[ASH]

Holy tamolie fellas. Even Cathay pays senior captain almost 100K a year in housing allowance. Send this one packing.

 

[Little Bubba]

You should do your housing research a little better. $8000 USD + would be an ultra high end place in the heart of the city. A quick search and I see that average high priced places are $15,000 HKG or about $2000 USD per month.

OCP, how many years have you lived in HK?

 

[Freight Dog]

Why is this on a MAJORS board? Shouldn't this be under Cargo?

Ahhh... the good ol' days.

 

[El Pobre]

Clearly it doesn't matter how you vote. ALPA knows what's best for you and the MEC will probably disregard your vote anyway. I'm voting no, just because I'm still pissed off about the MEC selling out on age 65.

My vote really won't matter however, (just like the age 65 surveys) since this will pass by a landslide, however, because everyone who doesn't want to move overseas wants there to be a new bid out anyways, so they will all vote yes, just to see the new bid, and the guys who elect to move overseas will be living by this agreement...and that is their choice.