Farken Ag Pilot!

[Flying Illini]

Boy you're right! What an Idiot. This guy's out trying to earn a living, helping farmers feed America, and the whole time, he's screwing up one of your bazillion 747 T&G patterns. Oh the Humanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TOOL

If the story is true, and things were as tight as he explained them to be, then yes, the guy in the ag plane is an idiot, and a dangerous idiot at that.
Just cause the ag pilot is trying to earn a living, it gives him the right to use the opposite runway in a busy traffic pattern?! I don't think so. I guess that the instructors in those other planes who are also trying to "earn a living" don't rank as high as the ag pilot whose sworn duty is to protect the earth's crops at any cost, even if it means threatening the safety of other airmen.

 

[RightPedal]

Avbug beat me to it with his statement about with what third hand would you operate it with. One must set in that seat to understand.
Look at it this way, An agpilot is much like a highway patrolman or an ambulance driver. They operate different than the rest of us. He has everything under control and doesn't need any help from us but to stay focused and in control of our machine.
And be carefull about confronting one of those guys to. We all have herd that actions speak louder than words, and most of them boys don't got much to say, there's no time for it.

 

[Snakum]

So I guess it has become obvious by now that it was Avbug in a yellow Ag Cat scaring the hell out of everyone?

He has a TCAS monkey to do traffic watch for him when he's spraying, so everyone was safe, whether they knew it or not. The monkey sleeps most of the time, but when Avbug is heading for the airport, the monkey grabs the sides of the seat from behind, pulls himself forward so that his chin is actually resting on Avbug's noggin, and the little feller keeps his head on a constant 225 degree swivel. When he sees traffic he gives a little screech, which get louder and more urgent the closer the aircraft is to Avbug and his TCAS monkey. When he sees Flight Instructors giving primary dual he goes absolute ape $hit, so Avbug was, of course, in a hurry to get on the ground to shut the little bastidge up.

Minh

(Seriously though, assuming this guy really did exactly what was described, I'm surprised no one else thinks he was being reckless.)

 

[mattpilot]

Guys.. this ISN"T about using a radio!

This is about the ag pilot going AGAINST the traffic pattern that was being used by 5 other aircraft! Your right - SEE AND AVOID. Thats what we did! Except for the ag pilot of course. Apperently he can't find traffic with his eyes either - or just didn't care. And just because he sprays the fields for "us" so we can "eat", why the hell couldn't he just get the fook in the same pattern as the rest and make a normal landing INTO the wind?

I saved the day by making calls for him? Ha... funny. Are you implying that it would of been safer NOT to point out an aircraft that is landing on the opposite side of the runway in use for other aircraft? As for active runway - there is no designated runway, but i do believe common sense dictates that the runway being used by many other aircraft would be the runway in use - just to be on the safe side of course.

So just because you think an ag pilot, like yourself avbug, has been in the business for X years he can do what he wants, regardless how he affects the safety of others?

Okay....


btw.. that wasn't you Avbug, was it?

 

[mattpilot]

§ 137.29 General.
(c) The holder of an agricultural aircraft operator certificate may deviate from the provisions of Part 91 of this chapter without a certificate of waiver, as authorized in this subpart for dispensing operations, when conducting nondispensing aerial work operations related to agriculture, horticulture, or forest preservation in accordance with the operating rules of this subpart.

Funny you should quote that. Could you please highlight the words where it says that an ag user may also deviate from rules when he is conducting any operations not involving dispensing? Either he was spraying the airport with chemicals, or it seems like he wasn't operating in accordance with 91 rules.

The exception is limited to maneuvering to spray fields or other 'dispensing operations'. Returning to an airfield to fill up is not a dispensing operation, or is it? You tell me.

 

[HangerRat]

You city boys. . .If you go back to doing your touch and goes in the middle of town. . .You want have to worry about the good 'ol boys in the country.

Use your eyes rather than your mouth.

 

[Stinkbug]

Many, many times I've elected to use a different runway than what others are using, and rightfully so. Most of the time, all the little weekend lemmings flying the "active runway" see the light and switch runways, but not always so. Do I care? No.

"See and avoid" doesn't work so well when you guys are flying a 200' pattern. If you're gonna fly that low and not talk to anyone, I don't see the intelligence or professionalism in intentionally taking the opposite runway as someone who's departing. Furthermore, don't you think it would be wise to consider the experience level of the "lemmings" you're mocking? A pattern full of soloing student pilots and 300-hour flight instructors is not the place to be doing your own thing. Regs aside, it seems to me that what you're talking about, Avbug, is at best rude and at worst unsafe.

 

[TDTURBO]

Don't patronize me. It does little to engender a good disposition on my part

Your disposition needs to be endangered not engendered, it sucks! That IS the point!

You bring a lot of knowlege and experience to the table, no doubt, just find it in yourself not to be so harsh and judgmental on people that you may disagree with, that's all.

 

[NJA Capt]

Could you please highlight the words where it says that an ag user may also deviate from rules when he is conducting any operations not involving dispensing?

Uhhh...sure. try the next sentence.

§ 137.29 General.
(c) The holder of an agricultural aircraft operator certificate may deviate from the provisions of Part 91 of this chapter without a certificate of waiver, as authorized in this subpart for dispensing operations, when conducting nondispensing aerial work operations related to ...

 

[54tw]

deleted

 

[Catbird]

Maybe you should file a complaint with the Fed's. Or better stroll on over to Mr. Duster and quote a few Reg's to him and inform him that if he does it again your going to hit him with your purse. Get a grip you little Prick, go back to your home airport and burn the tires off whatever POS your learning to fly. My hats off to the fellow, next time I hope he has a little Heptaclor saved in the barn to hose your sorry rump.

 

[soarby007]

I've never flown Ag stuff, and I hesitate to engage myself into this fray, but as I read 137.45...

(d)the aircraft at all times remains clear of and gives way to, aircraft conforming to the traffic pattern for the airport. or

in it's entirety

137.45 Nonobservance of airport traffic pattern

Notwithstanding part 91 of this chapter, the pilot in command of an aircraft may deviate from an airport traffic pattern when authorized by the control tower concerned. At an airport without a functioning control tower, the pilot in command may deviate from the traffic pattern if---
(a)Prior coordination is made with the airport management concerned;
(b)deviations are limited to the agricultural aircraft operation;
(c)Except in an emergency, landing and takeoffs are not made on ramps, taxiways, or other areas of the airport not intended for such use;and (d) The aircraft at all times remains clear of, and gives way to, aircraft conforming to the traffic pattern for the airport.

I would imagine the airport involved does not have a tower. I don't have any indication that the operation did or did not engage in agricultural aircraft operation and therefore do not know if (b) applies. It would appear that (a) and (d) would apply.

It seems to me from a basic reading of the account that the AG pilot probably should have complied with the standard traffic pattern recommended in the AIM or facility directory or as established by the airport management. Operating in a reckless manner does not require a regulation to determine if it is or not.

As for the radio, I think a lot of military guys are multi-functional and have mike buttons on the stick. I don't think operating in a traffic pattern requires an extraordinary amount of skill to include a radio in the operation, not that a radio saves you, but it is a tool that the modern age as adapted to. A lot of gliders also don't have radios for various reasons and some older aircraft also don't have radios. Most do.

I have always respected and appreciated the skills of an AG pilot, but really this seems to have been uncalled for as it was described by Mattpilot, regardless of his own problems.

 

[NJA Capt]

A pattern full of soloing student pilots and 300-hour flight instructors is not the place to be doing your own thing.

Maybe an airport with an active ag operation isn't the place to be soloing students. You can do T&Gs anywhere, but they have to operate near the fields they are spraying.

I am more scared trying to land a jet with a pattern full of "300 hr instructors." Especially the young lady who, after acknowledging our pattern (yes we flew a L traffic pattern), decided to do a sim eng out to an intersecting runway...at the same time.

Give me the ag pilots.

 

[54tw]

deleted

 

[Stinkbug]

Maybe an airport with an active ag operation isn't the place to be soloing students.

Good point.