Fallout from an age 60-Rule change

[WhiteCloud]

150 posts and still the same old crap. Young guys want the old guys out of the way so they can make more money. Old guys and pilots that are starting over because they were put out on the street want to keep working to make more money or make up for what they lost. As long as a pilot can pass a 6 month check and hold a 1st class medical I think they should be able to keep working. Maybe some more extensive medical examinations for those over 60 just like the yearly EKG's for those over 40.

 

[SWA/FO]

Alaska was losing money, right? They weren't 100% proftiable when this happened? (I'm asking becuase I don't know)

 

[Flopgut]

Do you have a real name? (or one that is more acceptable in social circles)--it's really difficult to respond to "Flopgut" with a straight face! I'm sure you'll tell me it's some super secret aviation name! LOL!

I don't answer legal questions that request advice as that is not allowed.

No it's not my burden of proof. The ICAO requirement is a political issue to expediate passage of the rules. There are many, like you, who doubt the ability of those over 60 to function. Perception is 100% of the truth. So if there is tape on the passenger tray table, the whole plane is broken mythology applies! To get around that, they offer a mitigating solution that, while not based on fact, will get the job done politically.

But you should know that prior to now, medical science thought that the brain stops development at around age 20. Well Harvard has researched this, studying brains ranging from ages birth to 76. They focused on myelin, the insulation wrapped around the wires of nerve cells. Myelin affects how quickly you think, act, learn and process information. The study found that myelin increased dramatically in the fifth decade (33 percent) and more dramatically in the sixth decade ( 55 percent!). The later growth spurts all occurred in the part of the brain associated with emotional learning and memory, which may explain a lot about emotional maturity.

Until now, no studies have been done.

HR Diva

Flopgut is entirely appropriate for me.

It is a safety issue, that is just the nature of it. If it should be changed and we want to have a fair appraisal of the safety aspects we should also be considering lowering the age. We are not; we have mde this about money.

There would be a wealth of data to use over at Netjets and other operations like them to base changes on. Because (you may not know this) pilots actually can fly past 60, just not at FAR 121 airlines. They have to get off their rump and assert themselves, get re-inspired on their career, and have enough professionalism to contribute in a new environment where they aren't the captain. Only the best examples of pilots that want/need to work over there get to and they are both superlative and a very small percentage of the total. Which I think makes abundantly clear why (most of) these pilots should go in the first place: they are tired, old and busted. They don't want to try anything new, they are not equiped to try anything new, the only thing they can envision themselves doing is soaking up the best schedules and the best pay we have left. Pilots can fly past 60, and the ones who can adapt to new situations, lead and be led, function outside their "comfort zone" like the ones who make it at Netjets are great, let them fly to 100! The problem at the airline is that we have to keep every one of them. Making age the single determining issue carries the opposite effect of what is good about pilot employees who are over 60. Can we legally re-interview pilots past 60 as part of this rule change?

At my airline we are about to have wholesale retirements! An incredible amount of renewal that is desperatly needed. New captains, check airman, chief pilots, union functionairies, management pilots, etc. We need this to freshen up our brand. The folks we have now are no longer equal to the task of moving us forward. Is there a better example of this urgent need anywhere else in corporate America than legacy airlines?

 

[Stan]

"A preliminary investigation of the wreckage found no obvious mechanical troubles with the bus, according to the California Highway Patrol, and weather, road and traffic conditions were good when the bus crashed about 7 a.m. The driver, Samuel Henry Bishop, 63, did not appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol."

Maybe this could have been avoided if he had a co-driver that was under 65.

 

[Spooky 1]

"A preliminary investigation of the wreckage found no obvious mechanical troubles with the bus, according to the California Highway Patrol, and weather, road and traffic conditions were good when the bus crashed about 7 a.m. The driver, Samuel Henry Bishop, 63, did not appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol."

Maybe this could have been avoided if he had a co-driver that was under 65.

Stan you are stuck on stupid. Everyone knows that the younger driving crowd has more accidents up through about the age of 72 if my memeory serves me right. Getting older by the day you know. The last pilot that died while on duty at Delta Air Lines was 51 and appeared to be in great health. Guess what, it happened during an approach to CDG and the old fart in the left seat manged to get the airplane on the ground with the help of another 50 year old RP. Amazing.

 

[Flopgut]

Continued for HR Diva:

I'm sure as an "HR Diva" you act with an abundance of caution toward any form of discrimination. Does this trump any other mandate you have toward keeping/getting the best group of employees you can? What sort of responsibility do you have toward the company on an issue like this? Is it viewed by management as having the added benefit of dividing the employee group?

So in your opinion this rule will be lumped in with all other EU/ICAO rules that are coming hard and fast like foriegn ownership and open skies? You are saying this will happen now? Because our ALPA legislative affairs guy has said that there is no matching effort in the House at all, and that "age 60" has only gotten this far to appease the SWAPA folks.

 

[Stan]

The pilot who caused a midday panic in Washington on Wednesday failed to get briefings about the weather and restricted airspace and became lost minutes after leaving a Pennsylvania airport, Federal Aviation Administration records show.
Hayden "Jim" Sheaffer, 69, froze when he saw a Black Hawk helicopter appear near his right wing while flying toward the White House and had difficulty operating his small, single-engine aircraft, officials said yesterday. It took the valiant effort of Sheaffer's student-pilot companion, Troy D. Martin, who had only 30 logged hours of flight time, to take over the controls and land the plane at an airport in Frederick, officials said.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Hayden "Jim" Sheaffer, 69, froze when he saw a Black Hawk helicopter appear near his right wing while flying toward the White House and had difficulty operating his small, single-engine aircraft, officials said yesterday. It took the valiant effort of Sheaffer's student-pilot companion, Troy D. Martin, who had only 30 logged hours of flight time, to take over the controls and land the plane at an airport in Frederick, officials said.

Of course we all know that folks under 60 never freeze up or get shaken up over events. In this case it certainly didn't help that the communication equipment on the intercepting helo was not functioning and added to the confusion. At least use a good example. A trend of age 60+ career pilots flying turbine equipment in business operations who are showing problems would get my attention. On old guy out for a burger doesn't quite make the case.

 

[ivauir]

Keep on drinkin' the juice and chucking peanuts.

Ok I will! You keep on being an uninformed moron!

I mean seriously, that's it? That is your response? You post this ignorant, incorrect drivel and then follow it up with lame insults? Stop wasting our time.