FAA Says It Will Take Action on Flight and Duty Time Limitations

zawillif

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Randy Babbitt, the Federal Aviation Administration administrator, told a group of industry and safety officials that action on flight and duty time would be part of a comprehensive response to the Colgan Air crash.
 

Speedtape

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It's interesting that the central issue in this accident is being overlooked to grandstand other non-related issues.

Colgan hired the pilots. Colgan trained the pilots. Were there deficiencies in training in these pilots' employment at Colgan? Is Colgan's training program adequate, or deficient? What were the upgrade requirements? Staying focused on the specific facts should produce the issues that need addressing!
 

CapnVegetto

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LOL this just shows how silly and stupid government officials are. These problems have been around for YEARS, it's just a shame a bunch of people had to die on the evening news before they'll actually do something about it. And even then, it might just be a trivial little jab at something just to make themselves look better and keep their lobbyists happy.

Reduced rest needs to GO AWAY as a scheduling tool. This should NEVER happen.

Training standards need to go up. I don't care if it costs money and/or jobs. If you're incompetent, you're incompetent, and the system shouldn't be changed to suit you.

Companies HAVE to be held accountable for poor scheduling and rest. Scheduling an 8 hour reduced rest with a 30 to 40 minute hotel van ride on either end after a 15 hour day NEEDS TO GO AWAY.

The FAA and the public needs to recognize that pilots, for the most part, are more scared of their bosses then they are of them. Especially in this economy, there are guys out there that will bend over and take it, KNOWING that something is unsafe, because they're more scared of losing their job then they are their life. This has GOT to stop.

The pathetically low, poverty level wages have GOT to stop. The reason that regionals can't get decent pilots is because they pay nothing. I have almost 4000 hours and there is no way in hell I would ever go work for a regional, especially these days, because I know there's no way I can support myself or my family until I upgrade to captain. I'd rather sell insurance or something. At least then I can put food on the table. I'm not a 20-something that lives in Mommy and Daddy's basement just starting out in my career anymore, which is the only way I could have afforded to do that.

A lot more than the rest rules need to change.
 

wms

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If Babbitt had fought for this as ALPA pres when the issue came up in the '90's, he wouldn't have to address it now.
 

jmreii

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The reason nobody really pursued the issue of duty times and limitations was because of a certain situation of throwing junior people under the bus and p!ss!ng off the airlines. My own company is discussing the issue of raising the prices on delivering a package, personally I believe they will cut back service and lay people off.
 

CopilotDoug

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The pathetically low, poverty level wages have GOT to stop.
In this economy? With impending furloughs??? The lines to join the ranks of the disgruntled pilots will only getting longer. The day people begin walking off the job en masse with no one to take their jobs is when you'll see something happen with pay (Don't wait for that day to come)
 

pilotyip

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In this economy? With impending furloughs??? The lines to join the ranks of the disgruntled pilots will only getting longer. The day people begin walking off the job en masse with no one to take their jobs is when you'll see something happen with pay (Don't wait for that day to come)
It happened in 2007, several low paying airlines could not attract pilots, they responded with the addition training pay, hotel rooms while in training, and other benefits to ensure the could find pilots.
 

doh

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Maybe one of you with media contacts should tell them about the fracs. How about: "At the fractionals, you know, where rich people fly. They have a max duty day of 14 hours with 10 hours of rest, not reduceable. Gee, why do rich people get a higher standard of safety than the people who watch your news show?" A little class envy might just be the ticket. And the ratings w************************* at the news would eat that **** up!;)
 

Speedtape

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If Babbitt had fought for this as ALPA pres when the issue came up in the '90's, he wouldn't have to address it now.
He did fight for it. Unfortunately, the ATA fought harder. It's real hard to change status quo in Government Regulations, especially, when you are trying to shift the cost burden to Companies who can claim financial hardship! The airlines were still recovering from the economic slump caused by Desert Storm.
 

Speedtape

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Changes in those regulations will decrease flying jobs. And, remembering the debate, the ATA argued that pilots would not rest more if they were given the time to rest. They are probably right.
 

Poahi

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Changes in those regulations will decrease flying jobs. And, remembering the debate, the ATA argued that pilots would not rest more if they were given the time to rest. They are probably right.
Fair point.
Nearly every pilot I've talked to that commutes says they want to go to work, get their time in and go home. More rest may end up being fewer days off.
 

difete

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In the Senate hearing back on the 10th they discussed pay. I guess that now has been overlooked. More rest, less time off for us, and with theincrease of rest (non-payed), more poor paying trips. This sucks!
 

pilotyip

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Maybe one of you with media contacts should tell them about the fracs. How about: "At the fractionals, you know, where rich people fly. They have a max duty day of 14 hours with 10 hours of rest, not reduceable. Gee, why do rich people get a higher standard of safety than the people who watch your news show?" A little class envy might just be the ticket. And the ratings w************************* at the news would eat that **** up!;)
Because the rich have lots of money. This allowed NJ to overstaff to be able to meet customers expectations. Very few airline passengers are rich people, they want the cheapest ticket. More crew rest equals more crews for the same flying equals less pay for more pilots or less flying for fewer crews. As stated above it will probably mean more time on the road with less flying. In the end the consumer will dictate which airlines survive and it will be the one with th cheap tickets.
 

buscap

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Best be careful what we wish for folks. The Colgan accident had nothing to do with the rest and duty rules, as they are written.

The form of new regulation, if it were to actually address the issues brought to light by Colgan, would involve harder checkrides, stripping unions of the power to advocate for pilots after a bust, even though the union was not on property to defend this guy, and a high level of regulation regarding what and where we are allowed to be during rest. As far as the rest regulations, the precedent exists with the 8 hour beer rule, intruding into our non-duty lives.

I can easily imagine the industry associations getting behind such measures, because the bottom line would not be affected. Commuting would become illegal within a defined window. Pilots would continue to do so, but a blown tire investigation could easily put a commuter's certificate at risk.

As far as the pay issues; yeah, right. Raises for us all!!!
 
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pilotyip

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Best be careful what we wish for folks. The Colgan accident had nothing to do with the rest and duty rules, as they are written.

The form of new regulation, if it were to actually address the issues brought to light by Colgan, would involve harder checkrides, stripping unions of the power to advocate for pilots after a bust, even though the union was not on property to defend this guy, and a high level of regulation regarding what and where we are allowed to be during rest. As far as the rest regulations, the precedent exists with the 8 hour beer rule, intruding into our non-duty lives.

I can easily imagine the industry associations getting behind such measures, because the bottom line would not be affected. Commuting would become illegal within a defined window. Pilots would continue to do so, but a blown tire investigation could easily put a commuter's certificate at risk.

As far as the pay issues; yeah, right. Raises for us all!!!
Nice touch of airline reality 101, unusual to see on FI
 

buscap

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CRJ Driver

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Best be careful what we wish for folks. The Colgan accident had nothing to do with the rest and duty rules, as they are written.

The form of new regulation, if it were to actually address the issues brought to light by Colgan, would involve harder checkrides, stripping unions of the power to advocate for pilots after a bust, even though the union was not on property to defend this guy, and a high level of regulation regarding what and where we are allowed to be during rest. As far as the rest regulations, the precedent exists with the 8 hour beer rule, intruding into our non-duty lives.

I can easily imagine the industry associations getting behind such measures, because the bottom line would not be affected. Commuting would become illegal within a defined window. Pilots would continue to do so, but a blown tire investigation could easily put a commuter's certificate at risk.

As far as the pay issues; yeah, right. Raises for us all!!!
What does the union have to do with a check ride bust? You screw up in the sim, you bust, there's nothing the union can do to change that.

The "Union" you refer to you can thank them for many safety related items. The FAA did not come up with these ideas. The Union: ALPA.
 

buscap

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What does the union have to do with a check ride bust? You screw up in the sim, you bust, there's nothing the union can do to change that.

The "Union" you refer to you can thank them for many safety related items. The FAA did not come up with these ideas. The Union: ALPA.
My post is not a slam on the union. My point is the Union's ability to defend a pilot after a bust will most likely be curtailed. To me, this is a bad thing; part of the 'be careful what you wish for' thing.

Read the post before you jump my junk!!!
 
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