F9 to be pay protected at WN rates?

[vixin]

Star,

Hopefully we will be able to help you out. Once on our list you will be taken care of.

 

[Dizel8]

Best of luck F9 boys and gals, I hope it works out better for y'all than it did for ATA personnel.

 

[ricj41]

In Nov I will be a 5 year fo at Frontier. I stopped reading FI days ago and only read the last page. JHC lets have some facts
No one has bought us yet
Republic and SWA have bids in that can greatly change over the next couple of days
What has happened over the last year and a half has no bearing on what happens over the next week. How we got here is of no consequence.
IF SWA buys us it is contingent on FAPA and SWAPA agreeing on an SLI
SWAPA have also stated they want a contract signed before the deal for F9 is finalized
FAPA have held face to face informal talks over the last week or so
Opinion
I believe that SWA is buying us out of weakness as opposed to strength. They couldn't kill us, and they do not want to see Republic grow into a competitor. This is a good thing for the pilots. SWAPA I am sure see this and will use this while negotiating. Southwest could easily turn DIA into BWI but only if they can buy us. That would mean placating both pilot groups.
There is no way the f9 pilots will vote for an sli that staples us and then furloughs us. Say what ever you want but why would we. There are a lot of f9 pilots who would rather go with Republic and see us grow then go with Southwest. For SWA to win they have to convince the board, ucc, and judge their deal is the best for all parties which includes the frontier employees. Republics deal would keep the vast number of frontier employees employed with the opportunity for growth.
Suggestion:
This could be a win win situation for SWA, the swa pilots and the frontier pilots. IF Swa wins lets let SWAPA and FAPA negotiate and remember that every time pilot groups have merged no one has been 100% happy. SWAPA will also be concurrently negotiating a contract for all the SWA pilots.
Lets stop arguing on a public annonymous message board which will have no bearing whatsoever on what happens and allows trolls and others to flame or post inaccurate info.
By the way I live in Denver but my entire family is in the Annapolis Md area.
I am not going to read this thread anymore but will be happy to pm back and forth.

 

[b747dogg]

I believe that SWA is buying us out of weakness as opposed to strength. They couldn't kill us, and they do not want to see Republic grow into a competitor. This is a good thing for the pilots. SWAPA I am sure see this and will use this while negotiating. Southwest could easily turn DIA into BWI but only if they can buy us. That would mean placating both pilot groups.

Are kidding me??? Dude, you guys are BANKRUPT!!! F9 pilots should be stapled and greatful. If not, go to Republic!

 

[MCDU]

DOH for all f9 pilots with C and R. If SWA wants Frontier, they should honor the years. Anything else is pure pilot greed and a windfall for SWA pilots at the expense of Frontier pilots.

M

 

[Beetle007]

Mohawk Allegeny will require seat protection and relative seniority to each seat. Its federal law.

Wrong...Federal Law (when applicable) only requires the lists be integrated in a "fair and equitable manner". It DOES NOT require seat protection or relative seniority.

Frontier was in bankruptcy and struggling to survive and has payrates significantly lower than Southwest. If you can convince an arbitrator that relative seniority is "fair and equitable" then you should have been a lawyer instead of a pilot.

 

[Cometman]

In Nov I will be a 5 year fo at Frontier. I stopped reading FI days ago and only read the last page. JHC lets have some facts
No one has bought us yet
Republic and SWA have bids in that can greatly change over the next couple of days
What has happened over the last year and a half has no bearing on what happens over the next week. How we got here is of no consequence.
IF SWA buys us it is contingent on FAPA and SWAPA agreeing on an SLI
SWAPA have also stated they want a contract signed before the deal for F9 is finalized
FAPA have held face to face informal talks over the last week or so
Opinion
I believe that SWA is buying us out of weakness as opposed to strength. They couldn't kill us, and they do not want to see Republic grow into a competitor. This is a good thing for the pilots. SWAPA I am sure see this and will use this while negotiating. Southwest could easily turn DIA into BWI but only if they can buy us. That would mean placating both pilot groups.
There is no way the f9 pilots will vote for an sli that staples us and then furloughs us. Say what ever you want but why would we. There are a lot of f9 pilots who would rather go with Republic and see us grow then go with Southwest. For SWA to win they have to convince the board, ucc, and judge their deal is the best for all parties which includes the frontier employees. Republics deal would keep the vast number of frontier employees employed with the opportunity for growth.
Suggestion:
This could be a win win situation for SWA, the swa pilots and the frontier pilots. IF Swa wins lets let SWAPA and FAPA negotiate and remember that every time pilot groups have merged no one has been 100% happy. SWAPA will also be concurrently negotiating a contract for all the SWA pilots.
Lets stop arguing on a public annonymous message board which will have no bearing whatsoever on what happens and allows trolls and others to flame or post inaccurate info.
By the way I live in Denver but my entire family is in the Annapolis Md area.
I am not going to read this thread anymore but will be happy to pm back and forth.

You sound very sincere and I wish you all the best. However, your airline is in Chapter 11 and being sold. Do you really think you should come out of this on top of SWA pilots? You can't be serious. I wish I had the opportunity that you have. Then you also have to consider Lynx. Should they also be included? How come they are not included in your list right now? Oh, they ae opeating as a seperate company, right? F9 will be operated as a seperate company also.

 

[Porch]

Forget it... I was asked to remove my post stating facts why WN is the better deal... I guess we'll find out soon enough. Cheers

 

[ArtVandalay]

I don't have a bark here but, I think its funny when a "potential" buyout occurs and all of the sudden everyone talks about what their pay is going to be, where I'm going to be on the seniority list, blah blah...and the deal isn't even solidified yet and may not. Like someone else on here said, be thankful your company is even being considered by SWA.

 

[slaquer5]

I believe that SWA is buying us out of weakness as opposed to strength. They couldn't kill us,.

I am confused, IS F9 in bankruptcy. If so is that a good thing?

 

[b747dogg]

Wrong...Federal Law (when applicable) only requires the lists be integrated in a "fair and equitable manner". It DOES NOT require seat protection or relative seniority.
QUOTE]

Ok, "fair and equitable". Lets merge by pay per hour.

 

[firstthird]

Ok, "fair and equitable". Lets merge by pay per hour.

that wouldn't take into account career expectations. one company is bankrupt and the other is considering buying them. one company has pilots on furlough and the other has never furloughed, thanks to the union more than the company, but still the fact remains.

 

[Quiet Flight]

Hey guys and gals. I had a long discussion with our SWAPA Safety guy (JG) and he said the new rules for crew rest (12 Hr duty day) will mean all airlines will have to increase manning. At SW we will need 3 reserve raps vs the 2 we have now. We will go from 200 extra pilots to needing extra pilots. He told me to expect the new regs on the street in the next 30 to 45 days. After that the airlines will 180 days to put them into affect.

This will mean HUGE pay cuts for everybody. Not in your rate but in what you can do credit wise for a particular month. God help us if this (12 hr duty day. WTF??) becomes reality...

Sorry to hijack... Now back to your regularly scheduled mudslinging!

 

[MILPILOT17]

This will mean HUGE pay cuts for everybody. Not in your rate but in what you can do credit wise for a particular month. God help us if this (12 hr duty day. WTF??) becomes reality...

Sorry to hijack... Now back to your regularly scheduled mudslinging!

Numbers/Statistics are a funny thing? I'll bet you'll be surprised with what schedueling can do in 12 hours. How may 12+ hour duty days have you had since the beginning of the year? Fly safe!

 

[slaquer5]

Sorry to hijack... Now back to your regularly scheduled mudslinging!

I just spit my beer out LMAO

 

[Porch]

Does FAPA really have a say in ANYTHING regarding WN & F9? I don't think so... I don't pray much... But I am now, hoping Republic is out bid & things go WN's way

 

[climb2slow]

Does FAPA really have a say in ANYTHING regarding WN & F9? I don't think so... I don't pray much... But I am now, hoping Republic is out bid & things go WN's way

well, if you look at the fact that Southwest has stated that a SLI deal between SWAPA and FAPA, then yes, FAPA has some say.

I have been somewhat vocal in my opinion about a deal that includes only 80% of the company and pilots. Recent talks have led me to believe that I should wait until the final deal is presented to make up my mind. There are some at SWA and a few at F9 that believe that the final deal will be for 100% of the operation. If it is less, than the judge may side with Republic.

I have always admired Southwest as a company and I have many friends that work there. I am reserving my opinion on the deal until there is actually a deal.

Either way, we will know much more by tomorrow evening I suspect.

 

[krewmeel]

The SWA/FO is dead on. Our management is not your friend until you are an employee of SWA (and then, sometimes not). They are ruthless and will not give you anything just to be nice. If they can structure the deal to draw down F9 and not hire you guys at all, they will. However, SWA wants labor's blessing (read SWAPA, not FAPA) and SWAPA wants you guys on the list, maybe even with no interview, no type rating, longevity, and pay protection. Good grief...we're trying to help you, and I'll even admit it's with our own personal motivations.

Don't doubt for a minute that SWA is serious and will win this deal. Their upped binding bid should tell you this. You should get RAH out of your mind and figure out how to get SWAPA's protection from SWA. A/M and B/M do not require employment. They only require a fair integration if there is one. You're in chapter 11. Your scope provisions are worthless if the judge says so. You could be bought and drawn down in less than 2 years with no seniority number and no interview. It stinks...I know. It's reality. You don't have to end up in this worst case scenario. Your union prez said worst case was a staple!? Not even close.

For the junior 2/3 of FAPA, don't let the senior 1/3 blow this for you!

Good luck,
shootr

I think you are generally correct in your statement, however, don't think that WN will win just because they are the highest bidder tomorrow. The judge is REQUIRED to take the highest and BEST bid. This includes what he believes is best for the the employees (read JOBS). WN will probably win, but don't count on us as your furlough fodder just yet.

 

[krewmeel]

Does FAPA really have a say in ANYTHING regarding WN & F9? I don't think so... I don't pray much... But I am now, hoping Republic is out bid & things go WN's way

Yes. FAPA is an unsecured creditor. FAPA is on the unsecured creditors committee. FAPA has a vote, as well as the rest of the unsecured creditors, as to which offer to take. The judge is likely (but not required) to go with the wishes of the UCC and F9 managemet.

 

[firstthird]

there is nothing that would make me happier than for RAH to win this bid unless we get an agreement with FAPA before and not one that is a windfall. define that how you will.