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F9 pilots and RAH pilots plz

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mayoplane

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Posts
124
I want to know how F9 pilots felt about how this negotiation was done by FAPA? Are you proud, angry, disappointed....? How do you feel and how do your co-workers feel? Did the negotiation reflect the majority?

RAH guys..., are you excited? How do you feel?

I've always loved flyn on a whole different animal. I wish you nothing but the best. No sense in bashing each other.
 
We had zero say in anything. So I'm 2 & 3.
I feel 2 & 3, coworker feel 2 & 3.
The majority = NO & IMO

the whole different animal is going to be a bit different due to the capts throwing the FOs with the lions.

Agreed, I bet all will work hard and take multiple consessions again to make this work. Misery loves company. It will be fun! Another great chapter in our careers. I'm looking forward to it.... We'll keep it positive and productive! Yippee
 
Based on what little details we've heard, I'd say most of us are happy with the outcome. However, until we know the all details there is little to be said. Unlike many of the posters on here, I won't assume I know all the facts. I have no doubt our guys made the right choice. Seems to me the SWA guys had a hell of a lot more to win/lose from this deal...just read the numerous posts trying to convince us the SWA way is the only way to go. They've been wrong sooooo many times regarding our futures at F9. Time will tell who was right...I just look forward to moving on with life. I for one would have been on the streets 4-6 months from now. Good luck to us all.
 
As an RAH guy, I still don't know what to think. Our unions have a lot to deal with while integrating 4 airlines.

The good news is we still have no contract. This is huge, it gives us all the opportunity for negotiating a fair set of work rules and wages inline with the companies new direction. In other words, no pre-agreed pay scales for aircraft we don't even have.

As for being excited, I'd say no. Of course its easy to think this could have been a huge windfall, getting in on the ground floor of a carrier which could thrive for years, but at the same time the risk is just too great to really have any assurance of success. We're in uncharted waters here, and like maps of old, "Here be dragons".
 
stratus72 said:
Based on what little details we've heard, I'd say most of us are happy with the outcome. However, until we know the all details there is little to be said. Unlike many of the posters on here, I won't assume I know all the facts. I have no doubt our guys made the right choice. Seems to me the SWA guys had a hell of a lot more to win/lose from this deal...just read the numerous posts trying to convince us the SWA way is the only way to go. They've been wrong sooooo many times regarding our futures at F9. Time will tell who was right...I just look forward to moving on with life. I for one would have been on the streets 4-6 months from now. Good luck to us all.
Click to expand...

FAPA cool-aid boy... you wouldn't be on the streets. I don't know what the road shows told you. I have a feeling they were selling R which is a mistake to you and your family. FAPA: THEY BLEW IT THEY BLEW IT

""Quote:
Originally Posted by starchkr
Tha same thing that would have happened to me if we got the SWA bid...I'd be out of a job.""

You keep bringing this possible short term issue up over & over again. It was stated that WN would reduce monthly flight hours to keep EVERYBODY working. They never had a pilot on the street, and aren't going to stick it to anyone now. That's the kind of concept your missing with WNs people friendly environment... Something F9 pilots aren't use to; sticking together. It's too late now, were closer to being on the street than we ever were. FAPA blew it and we all know it. Shortsightedness has it's price, the piper is going to come knocking with a bigger stick than before & the competition is going to be ruthless. Wait and see... But wait, were blind.

YOU WOULDNT BE OUT OF A JOB, YOU'D HAVE A BETTER JOB... NOW YOU DONT FOO
 
I can't say for sure what would have happened to your job protection. Can anyone in this industry? I can say that SWA takes care of their employees. Sometimes even when a CPA says they shouldn't. I'm certain we'd have fought for F9ers, and done anything possible to keep them off the street.

Good luck everyone.
 
Porch said:
That's the kind of concept your missing with WNs people friendly environment...
Click to expand...

People friendly environment my a.ss

Listen to yourself speak.

I've never seen a more jaded group of pilots in my life (at least the one's that are on this message board...I would venture to guess most WN pilots don't care).

Can't you let it go and support your fellow aviator already instead of playing the "You are soooooo F'd" record over and over again?

They did nothing to you, why be so anxious to see them fail.

It's sad.
 
I am in no way eager to see F9 fail.

I think what guys are getting at is the "wow" factor of how you guys are so eager to be with RAH and you don't even know what you "won" yet since you have no contract and have absolutely no idea where or how or if you will be integrated.

Peace,
Gup
 
What's awsome is that I have a couple of years to go in the AF before I can start at SWA. If this deal had gone though, there's probably no way they'd be hiring off the street! No I'm pretty much in. Not to mention they probably will have a HUGE grudge against F9 guys with applications in at SWA! Freaking sweet!
 
Tanker Clown said:
What's awsome is that I have a couple of years to go in the AF before I can start at SWA. If this deal had gone though, there's probably no way they'd be hiring off the street! No I'm pretty much in. Not to mention they probably will have a HUGE grudge against F9 guys with applications in at SWA! Freaking sweet!
Click to expand...

"You ever heard of a "Japanese Inspection?" Japanese Inpsection, you see, when the Japs take in a load of lettuce they're not sure they wanna let in the country, why they'll just let it sit there on the dock 'til they get good and ready to look at, But then of course, it's all gone rotten... ain't nothing left to inspect. You see, lettuce is a perishable item... "
 
CaptainKiwi said:
"You ever heard of a "Japanese Inspection?" Japanese Inpsection, you see, when the Japs take in a load of lettuce they're not sure they wanna let in the country, why they'll just let it sit there on the dock 'til they get good and ready to look at, But then of course, it's all gone rotten... ain't nothing left to inspect. You see, lettuce is a perishable item... "
Click to expand...

"....like you two clowns."
 
I know what you're talking about. That's why my buddy is going to hook me up and 6 months prior to retirement he said I'll get my interview. He's totally hooked up a bunch of our buds in Phoenix. Not to mention I have a friend VERY connected at headquarters that was also a SWAPA guy.

Not to mention that every Frontier guy with an app in (type or not) is pretty much out of the picture now. Furloughed or not from F9.
 
Tanker Clown said:
I know what you're talking about. That's why my buddy is going to hook me up and 6 months prior to retirement he said I'll get my interview. He's totally hooked up a bunch of our buds in Phoenix. Not to mention I have a friend VERY connected at headquarters that was also a SWAPA guy.

Not to mention that every Frontier guy with an app in (type or not) is pretty much out of the picture now. Furloughed or not from F9.
Click to expand...

So crj567, you're posting under tanker clown today?
Just make sure between posting under all these different usernames that you get to Wendy's on time!
 
Porch said:
FAPA cool-aid boy... you wouldn't be on the streets. I don't know what the road shows told you. I have a feeling they were selling R which is a mistake to you and your family. FAPA: THEY BLEW IT THEY BLEW IT

""Quote:
Originally Posted by starchkr
Tha same thing that would have happened to me if we got the SWA bid...I'd be out of a job.""

You keep bringing this possible short term issue up over & over again. It was stated that WN would reduce monthly flight hours to keep EVERYBODY working. They never had a pilot on the street, and aren't going to stick it to anyone now. That's the kind of concept your missing with WNs people friendly environment... Something F9 pilots aren't use to; sticking together. It's too late now, were closer to being on the street than we ever were. FAPA blew it and we all know it. Shortsightedness has it's price, the piper is going to come knocking with a bigger stick than before & the competition is going to be ruthless. Wait and see... But wait, were blind.

YOU WOULDNT BE OUT OF A JOB, YOU'D HAVE A BETTER JOB... NOW YOU DONT FOO
Click to expand...



BONE HEAD! SWA was only going to take 80% of our fleet. What cave have you been in the last several days??? That's 11 AC gone as soon as the deal is sealed! Over the next 12-24 months they would disolve the rest of the fleet. You really so damn naive to think SWA would recall us all? Your airline, while still a powerhouse and a great place to work, is on the decline. I'm glad your career is safe there, for now. Things have changed and will continue to do so. I don't believe for a second your pilot group would sacrifice to save all of our jobs. You guys are overstaffed and tryng to save furloughs within your own group...an that's the right thing to do. That's fact and that's my point. Just another negative prick making the SWA pilots look bad.
 
Last edited:
Just F9 and RAH

Jeez guys. While i too believe that the F9 pilots wouldve had better future at SWA, i really wanted to hear from the F9 guys and see if FAPA represented you guys well. Nobody really knows for sure if it was the right decision, but it is somewhat all right if FAPA focus points reflected the F9 pilot group hopes.
 
Tanker Clown said:
I know what you're talking about. That's why my buddy is going to hook me up and 6 months prior to retirement he said I'll get my interview. He's totally hooked up a bunch of our buds in Phoenix. Not to mention I have a friend VERY connected at headquarters that was also a SWAPA guy.

Not to mention that every Frontier guy with an app in (type or not) is pretty much out of the picture now. Furloughed or not from F9.
Click to expand...

Tanker Clown,

I can assure you you will not pass the interview. I won't elaborate on why because I don't want to give you the chance to snow them at the interview (if you get it). I'd love to find out who you are so I could assure that you are never employed by SWA.
 
As a furloughed guy, I feel great about FAPAs decision to proceed with RAH.

I think the WN deal was a mind F$%k to destroy the RAH bid by having them overbid and run out of cash early in the future.
 
Guys,

Tanker Clown is a SWA dude who likes to stir things up for his own amusement.

Just laugh and don't let him spin you up!!!
 
Cornelius said:
As a furloughed guy, I feel great about FAPAs decision to proceed with RAH.

I think the WN deal was a mind F$%k to destroy the RAH bid by having them overbid and run out of cash early in the future.
Click to expand...

Cornelius, I absolutely felt sure SWA would have bid something as a head fake to make sure Frontier did'nt go too cheap. I guess in the final analysis that is exactly what happened...

T
 
stratus72 said:
BONE HEAD! SWA was only going to take 80% of our fleet. What cave have you been in the last several days??? That's 11 AC gone as soon as the deal is sealed! Over the next 12-24 months they would disolve the rest of the fleet. You really so damn naive to think SWA would recall us all? Your airline, while still a powerhouse and a great place to work, is on the decline. I'm glad your career is safe there, for now. Things have changed and will continue to do so. I don't believe for a second your pilot group would sacrifice to save all of our jobs. You guys are overstaffed and tryng to save furloughs within your own group...an that's the right thing to do. That's fact and that's my point. Just another negative prick making the SWA pilots look bad.
Click to expand...
What is so funny is you are arguing with one of your guys, which I think will happen more as the "details" you have been hidden from come to light. SO sad to hear you say "what little details" we've heard. Our union was very open with us, and tried to be with FAPA. Latest communication we are receiving is that FAPA didn't make half the effort our guys did to meet the deadline. It really seems that FAPA wanted no part of it from the start. That is totally fine. You say we had more to lose? I don't think so at all. In fact I am happy that it failed. Judging the character of your unions proposal shows they didn't want to be here. I have yet to meet anyone employed at SWA who wishes he/she worked somewhere else or was not happy with there current employment. SWA employees want to be here. We do not want potential employees that would rather work somewhere else. It is bad for our culture. Our union did what they felt was best for our pilot group, as did or CEO!! FAPA feels they did the same for you. That's great and its over. Look, were not flying around thinking "damn I,m so pissed we didn't get FRONTIER". It's more likely we feel, "oh well, it wasn't meant to be". PERIOD. Thanks for my furlough notice by the way too. I don't wish anything like that on anyone, been there twice! And thanks for telling us the end is near for SWA.. No carrier is immune from Ch7 at all! Simple third grade math wouldn't prove anything your touting. Good luck to us all ...
 
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walkthasky said:
What is so funny is you are arguing with one of your guys, which I think will happen more as the "details" you have been hidden from come to light. SO sad to hear you say "what little details" we've heard. Our union was very open with us, and tried to be with FAPA. Latest communication we are receiving is that FAPA didn't make half the effort our guys did to meet the deadline. It really seems that FAPA wanted no part of it from the start. That is totally fine. You say we had more to lose? I don't think so at all. In fact I am happy that it failed. Judging the character of your unions proposal shows they didn't want to be here. I have yet to meet anyone employed at SWA who wishes he/she worked somewhere else or was not happy with there current employment. SWA employees want to be here. We do not want potential employees that would rather work somewhere else. It is bad for our culture. Our union did what they felt was best for our pilot group, as did or CEO!! FAPA feels they did the same for you. That's great and its over. Look, were not flying around thinking "damn I,m so pissed we didn't get FRONTIER". It's more likely we feel, "oh well, it wasn't meant to be". PERIOD. Thanks for my furlough notice by the way too. I don't wish anything like that on anyone, been there twice! And thanks for telling us the end is near for SWA.. No carrier is immune from Ch7 at all! Simple third grade math wouldn't prove anything your touting. Good luck to us all ...
Click to expand...
I am not sure that any more talking with SWAPA was really necessary. A straight staple was not acceptable to us.(right or wrong) and SWAPA made it clear that they were only interested in negotiating other things after we agreed to the straight staple. Talking till midnight was not going to change that. As for who did or didnt call the other one back...we're all adults, and we will get over it.
 
What union needs to make the bottom half feel better about their descision? Ill give you a hint it isnt SWAPA.
 
climb2slow said:
I am not sure that any more talking with SWAPA was really necessary. A straight staple was not acceptable to us.(right or wrong) and SWAPA made it clear that they were only interested in negotiating other things after we agreed to the straight staple. Talking till midnight was not going to change that. As for who did or didnt call the other one back...we're all adults, and we will get over it.
Click to expand...

A "straight staple" is not even close to describing the SWAPA initial position. Pay and domicile protection and recall rights for 100% of the FAPA seniority list were valuable components.
 
Why in the hell are you guys still debating this? It's over!!! Go get laid or something. It is very embarrassing seeing the SWAPA dudes over practically begging for time to be reversed and the outcome different. Go fly or something, DAM!!!
 
CaptainKiwi said:
"You ever heard of a "Japanese Inspection?" Japanese Inpsection, you see, when the Japs take in a load of lettuce they're not sure they wanna let in the country, why they'll just let it sit there on the dock 'til they get good and ready to look at, But then of course, it's all gone rotten... ain't nothing left to inspect. You see, lettuce is a perishable item... "
Click to expand...

Okay, this is killing me. What movie is that from? I cannot remember for the life of me.
 

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