F9 -22.4M (Frontier)

[Bookingsareup]

Your missing the point. The example you gave above is good if you're a share holder in Frontier, not a pilot.

I don't think you understand what the F9 pilots actually achieved with their new contract. It was much more than the majority of its peers have been able to attain in the last six years.

 

[GuppyWN]

Feel Superior? For what? I'm simply giving you a little history lesson that has happened to many a good man in the past and is a very real possibility for F9.

Ask any legacy pilot if he thinks RJ's and T-props have taken flying from them.

Gup

 

[Captain Overs]

I don't think you understand what the F9 pilots actually achieved with their new contract. It was much more than the majority of its peers have been able to attain in the last six years.

I guess you're right. Dropping first year pay from the 50 dollar range to the 30 dollar range was looking out for future Frontier pilots. I'm glad you don't run the company.

In the past you might have attracted pilots because your first year pay was better than most other majors. Why would you do it now. You can go to CAL for 30 dollars and hour, or UPS.

I'm afraid by the time you wake up it'll be too late.

 

[Bookingsareup]

Feel Superior? For what? I'm simply giving you a little history lesson that has happened to many a good man in the past and is a very real possibility for F9.

Ask any legacy pilot if he thinks RJ's and T-props have taken flying from them.

Gup

Thank you for your concern. However, read my above post. I also point to Delta, N.W., UAL, and others who have given up hundreds of millions. F9 has been able to come away with a better contract than their last which is better than the hundreds who sold out at the afforementioned carriers of which one I am currently employed. I hope SWA pilots will attain similiar results with your contract when your time comes

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well, hmmm... let's see here. If the Q-400's aren't being operated by Frontier pilots (i.e. IF they were given up in the Scope section), that means the Frontier pilots signed an agreement that contained pay freezes at some points, pay CUTS at some points, AND the growth is all going to a feeder carrier and not to the Frontier pilots in exchange for those give-backs.

THAT would SUCK... unless you were the guy flying the Q-400 in the left seat.

No...even if you are flying that thing from the left seat it would still suck. Met one of their Captains jumpseating home a few weeks ago. Off the street guy with prior time in the original Dash 8 ,with Type Rating and prior PIC in the aircraft. His hourly rate? $50.00/hr!! That's less than Piedmont pays for the 100 and 300 series aircraft that they have.Oh,well......


PHXFLYR

 

[Bookingsareup]

I guess you're right. Dropping first year pay from the 50 dollar range to the 30 dollar range was looking out for future Frontier pilots. I'm glad you don't run the company.

In the past you might have attracted pilots because your first year pay was better than most other majors. Why would you do it now. You can go to CAL for 30 dollars and hour, or UPS.

I'm afraid by the time you wake up it'll be too late.

I agree, I would rather go to another carrier. However why would CURRENT F9 pilots CARE about future pilots' pay when they can perserve and/or enhance the EXISTING pilots pay. think about it. By the way your theory doesn't hold water F9 is flush with applicants. Also try not to put words in my mouth I never said anything about "looking out for future pilots" so I'm not sure what you are talking about. And, before you go on associating me with F9 please READ my post. I am not associated with F9

 

[rtmcfi]

I agree, I would rather go to another carrier. However why would CURRENT F9 pilots CARE about future pilots' pay when they can perserve and/or enhance the EXISTING pilots pay. think about it. By the way your theory doesn't hold water F9 is flush with applicants. Also try not to put words in my mouth I never said anything about "looking out for future pilots" so I'm not sure what you are talking about. And, before you go on associating me with F9 please READ my post. I am not associated with F9

Sooo, who are you a pilot for?

 

[Skyboy722]

However why would CURRENT F9 pilots CARE about future pilots' pay when they can perserve and/or enhance the EXISTING pilots pay. think about it.

I am so grateful that the pilots at my airline who signed the current contract before I was hired didn't share YOUR point of view...

 

[Captain Overs]

I am so grateful that the pilots at my airline who signed the current contract before I was hired didn't share YOUR point of view...

I agree, however, I'm calling BS. He wouldn't be that dumb if he worked at one of the "other" carriers he claims to work for. N.W., Delta, United? Those pilots would understand what Guppy and I are talking about. Anyone who's been in this business, even for a short time, understands what we're trying to say.

I think he's a low time, or no pic time, pilot for F9. Or he's just flame baiting us.

 

[F9 Buff]

Anyone else figure out that Lynx isn't the enemy here but whoever is operating those RJs for the JetExpress operation is?

Lynx is just creating growth for mainline. Lynx will probably never fly a route that mainline would operate.

Frontier Jet Express on the other hand... They are going to have nearly as many of those 170s in DEN as Airbus, and unlike Lynx, they can, will, and are operating on routes that mainline has served.

 

[Lear70]

I agree, I would rather go to another carrier. However why would CURRENT F9 pilots CARE about future pilots' pay when they can perserve and/or enhance the EXISTING pilots pay. think about it. By the way your theory doesn't hold water F9 is flush with applicants. Also try not to put words in my mouth I never said anything about "looking out for future pilots" so I'm not sure what you are talking about. And, before you go on associating me with F9 please READ my post. I am not associated with F9

MANAGEMENT TROLL ALERT!!

Yup. You are DEFINITELY not an airline pilot.

My guess is a management pilot who *maybe* has a CMEL certificate. No one would deliberately "screw their buddy" like you just DIRECTLY admitted having no compunction in doing.

F9 is flush with very LOW time applicants. Sure, they'll be able to fly the planes just fine, but all the experienced guys now have other carriers in mind.

You're still trying to claim that somehow the F9 contract was something to boast about. CA's took pay freezes, then pay cuts later in the contract duration. Future new-hires got screwed into a 40% pay cut. And did you say something about F9 getting a DC plan that FedEx is ENVIOUS of?

Did you really just fu*king say that? In seriousness?

Hmmm... yeah... those FedEx guys are really jealous, what with making more than 3 times as much throughout their careers then getting a Defined BENEFIT payout equal to approx 60% of their salary every year (which will still be more than the top CA scale of an active F9 employee). Yup. Those FedEx guys are just going in DROVES to Frontier. idiot.

F9 pilots didn't give up the farm, but they surely didn't help advance their own careers any.

 

[Bookingsareup]

I am so grateful that the pilots at my airline who signed the current contract before I was hired didn't share YOUR point of view...

look back on your company's history and you will find some concessionary deal. You have got to look past the day YOU were hired. If you had the option NOW to preserve and/ or enhance your current situation you would, and so would the majority of the pilots out there. The proof in in the voting.

 

[Bookingsareup]

MANAGEMENT TROLL ALERT!!

Yup. You are DEFINITELY not an airline pilot.

My guess is a management pilot who *maybe* has a CMEL certificate. No one would deliberately "screw their buddy" like you just DIRECTLY admitted having no compunction in doing.

F9 is flush with very LOW time applicants. Sure, they'll be able to fly the planes just fine, but all the experienced guys now have other carriers in mind.

You're still trying to claim that somehow the F9 contract was something to boast about. CA's took pay freezes, then pay cuts later in the contract duration. Future new-hires got screwed into a 40% pay cut. And did you say something about F9 getting a DC plan that FedEx is ENVIOUS of?

Did you really just fu*king say that? In seriousness?

Hmmm... yeah... those FedEx guys are really jealous, what with making more than 3 times as much throughout their careers then getting a Defined BENEFIT payout equal to approx 60% of their salary every year (which will still be more than the top CA scale of an active F9 employee). Yup. Those FedEx guys are just going in DROVES to Frontier. idiot.

F9 pilots didn't give up the farm, but they surely didn't help advance their own careers any.

I never said that FedEX pilots were ENVIOUS. Here is my quote."they got a D.C. plan that FedEx's MEC was impressed with." This was Frontier's first DC plan. I, as well as thousands of straight thinking pilots (INCLUDING FedEx's MEC) feel this is a fantastic step in the right direction. If you are going to attempt to have an intellectual conversation you have to at least be honest and, don't misquote so that you can argue points that YOU fabricate.

Further I simply stated the MAJORITY of F9's pilots position concerning first year pay.

I would put F9's contract up against my own, and probably yours too. There are, indeed areas that they need to work on however this is a sound contract.

Finally, relax and take the time to read my post in its entirety before you explode into a tirade again.

 

[Lear70]

Finally, relax and take the time to read my post in its entirety before you explode into a tirade again.

Tirade? You think that's a tirade?

Boy, you really must be living in a fishbowl... Glad the world is so cut and dry for you; must be nice not having to live in the real world that management types like you have created for the rest of us.

 

[Bookingsareup]

Tirade? You think that's a tirade?

Boy, you really must be living in a fishbowl... Glad the world is so cut and dry for you; must be nice not having to live in the real world that management types like you have created for the rest of us.

try to stick with me here. Try not to make this yet another personal attack thread. I have received 13 PM's supporting my statements, five of which disparage YOU. So, lets try to keep on topic and not go into the "People magazine" mentality. Many of us simply wish to DISCUSS important topics without the use of four letter words and hyper emotions. Ok?

 

[Lear70]

If your discussions were anywhere remotely accurate, you might have something there.

Otherwise, I call b.s. on the PM's, not to mention the people on this thread that have called you out on it. Suuurrrre you got 13 PM's in support. Easy claim to make since you don't have to back it up with those "facts" you were talking about.

And what was all that if not a personal attack on me right after you admonished me not to do the same?

Pot... meet kettle.

 

[Skyboy722]

look back on your company's history and you will find some concessionary deal. You have got to look past the day YOU were hired. If you had the option NOW to preserve and/ or enhance your current situation you would, and so would the majority of the pilots out there. The proof in in the voting.

Of course I would preserve/enhance my situation. But I wouldn't crucify those without a voice (those who haven't been hired yet) to do it. You're right, the proof is in the voting. I have voted this way in the past, and the pilots at my current company voted this way before I was hired. As a result, I enjoyed better pay and QOL as a new hire, and for that I am grateful to them. So there's your proof. The "majority of the pilots" at my company disagreed with you...

By the way, I am saying NOTHING about the F9 contract, as I know nothing about it, but am just responding to Booking's comment...

 

[Bookingsareup]

If your discussions were anywhere remotely accurate, you might have something there.

Otherwise, I call b.s. on the PM's, not to mention the people on this thread that have called you out on it. Suuurrrre you got 13 PM's in support. Easy claim to make since you don't have to back it up with those "facts" you were talking about.

And what was all that if not a personal attack on me right after you admonished me not to do the same?

Pot... meet kettle.

No, I never laid a personal attack against you, nor do I assume you are even a pilot.

 

[Lear70]

No, I never laid a personal attack against you, nor do I assume you are even a pilot.

Oh really?

I have received 13 PM's supporting my statements, five of which disparage YOU.

A personal attack, even an indirect one, is still a personal attack.

If you didn't mean it to disparage me, then you wouldn't have pointed that out at all.

Everyone here sees right through you, but no worries. Keep swimming...

 

[Blucher]

Anyone else figure out that Lynx isn't the enemy here but whoever is operating those RJs for the JetExpress operation is?

Lynx is just creating growth for mainline. Lynx will probably never fly a route that mainline would operate.

Frontier Jet Express on the other hand... They are going to have nearly as many of those 170s in DEN as Airbus, and unlike Lynx, they can, will, and are operating on routes that mainline has served.

This is partially correct. Sadly they are both "the enemy" of more pilot positions at F9. ALL of those aircraft should be flown by pilots on the F9 seniority list. Different pay scales, of course. Different seniority lists, NO WAY! "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I am deeply saddened by this turn of events at F9. I wish all F9ers the best of luck, even those who were too foolish to vote against this.

-Blucher:bawling: