F9 -22.4M (Frontier)

[Bookingsareup]

Well, hmmm... let's see here. If the Q-400's aren't being operated by Frontier pilots (i.e. IF they were given up in the Scope section), that means the Frontier pilots signed an agreement that contained pay freezes at some points, pay CUTS at some points, AND the growth is all going to a feeder carrier and not to the Frontier pilots in exchange for those give-backs.

THAT would SUCK... unless you were the guy flying the Q-400 in the left seat.

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that ALL growth will be feeder growth. Have you read the plan?
Why would you conclude that the feeder growth would be a result of pilot pay give-backs; thats no "exchange". Also, how does giving up the scope lead to pay cuts.

 

[Lear70]

That was sarcasm... sorry it didn't translate well on a message board.

The last Agreement that the Frontier pilots signed included pay freezes and then a CUT for some pilots later in the contract.

For them to then take the Scope give-backs, farm that feed out to a regional affiliate, and give the pilots no growth SUCKS.

Also, I didn't say that ALL growth was going to be feeder growth, YOU used the word "all". However, the "diversification" comment sounds like that's exactly what he meant.

I was just seeing if there was more to the story than meets the eye. Evidently not, which is too bad for the Frontier pilots.

 

[ultrarunner]

Frontier President and CEO Jeff Potter said, “What the financial results are unable to reflect however, is the significant year over year operational improvements we achieved in fiscal 2007 and the growing excitement regarding our diversification"

THAT my friends is a PERFECT example of a CEO regurgitating the internal memo which the CFO forwarded after internal council approved it for release.

Gotta love it....

And what's the diversification excitement? Would this be the kind that swim for freedom???

They must be here on H1B's.


riiiiiight

 

[Captain Overs]

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that ALL growth will be feeder growth. Have you read the plan?
Why would you conclude that the feeder growth would be a result of pilot pay give-backs; thats no "exchange". Also, how does giving up the scope lead to pay cuts.

It might not lead to pay cuts per say. If the regional affiliate is growing instead of it being mainline growth, then it reduces your career advancement at Frontier. Make sense?

Ask the Continental guys if they thought giving up scope so Continental Express could get a few RJ's was a good thing. Coex grew into a two headed monster. I'd be careful if I was at Frontier. Don't give away the store on a promise to protect jobs.

 

[Bookingsareup]

"AND the growth is all going to a feeder carrier and not to the Frontier pilots in exchange for those give-backs."

I haven't read the contract cover to cover. Nor do I know all that was or was not given up by the pilots. However, I do know that management wanted $40 million from the pilots and they got $4 million. And, the company quantifies their $4 million NOT mainly in pay but in the new work rules- which, according to my sources still rivel those of any peer carrier. How can Frontier call itself Colorado's hometown airline and only service Denver? The Q's bring feed which F9 needs. Just like most majors. Ever since F9 ordered the Airbus more than five years ago they have never canceled or deferred deliveries. In fact, they have added to them. The Q operation will feed the Busses and allow for mainline expansion and therefore I believe your statement "AND the growth is all going to a feeder carrier and not to the Frontier pilots in exchange for those give-backs." is incorrect.

 

[GuppyWN]

Bookingsareup.

How long have you been an airline pilot? And for whom? If you can't see the downside then I'll show you 100 pilots RIGHT NOW that will spell out, in no uncertain terms, how airline management history grows the cheaper per seat airline that morphs from "short hop" to 2.5 hour legs. It turns from "interstate Colorado" to MCI, OMA, ABQ and every other destination within 750 miles of Denver. Then comes the "sorry boys but the Q400 is where the money is so we selling our delivery slots for the Airbus and adding orders for the 400. There is a fair probability of pitting one group against the other - hence the separate seniority lists.

It's pretty obvious you're either naive or a management type which in either case your responses are understandable but if you're a wanna be career guy like the rest of us then I suggest you listen to some of the previous posts and keep asking questions.

Gup

p.s. I'm an ex F9er and Potter is no Sam Adams.

 

[TOGA]

Lear70, GuppyWN and CaptainOvers get it. Too bad you guys weren't around to vote on our TA.

 

[Bookingsareup]

It might not lead to pay cuts per say. If the regional affiliate is growing instead of it being mainline growth, then it reduces your career advancement at Frontier. Make sense?

Ask the Continental guys if they thought giving up scope so Continental Express could get a few RJ's was a good thing. Coex grew into a two headed monster. I'd be careful if I was at Frontier. Don't give away the store on a promise to protect jobs.

Frontier's growth has nothing directly to do with my career. Further, I don't think Frontier pilots gave away the "store" they got a D.C. plan that FedEx's MEC was impressed with.

 

[Captain Overs]

"AND the growth is all going to a feeder carrier and not to the Frontier pilots in exchange for those give-backs."

I haven't read the contract cover to cover. Nor do I know all that was or was not given up by the pilots. However, I do know that management wanted $40 million from the pilots and they got $4 million. And, the company quantifies their $4 million NOT mainly in pay but in the new work rules- which, according to my sources still rivel those of any peer carrier. How can Frontier call itself Colorado's hometown airline and only service Denver? The Q's bring feed which F9 needs. Just like most majors. Ever since F9 ordered the Airbus more than five years ago they have never canceled or deferred deliveries. In fact, they have added to them. The Q operation will feed the Busses and allow for mainline expansion and therefore I believe your statement "AND the growth is all going to a feeder carrier and not to the Frontier pilots in exchange for those give-backs." is incorrect.

Your missing the point. The example you gave above is good if you're a share holder in Frontier, not a pilot.

 

[Bookingsareup]

Bookingsareup.

How long have you been an airline pilot? And for whom? If you can't see the downside then I'll show you 100 pilots RIGHT NOW that will spell out, in no uncertain terms, how airline management history grows the cheaper per seat airline that morphs from "short hop" to 2.5 hour legs. It turns from "interstate Colorado" to MCI, OMA, ABQ and every other destination within 750 miles of Denver. Then comes the "sorry boys but the Q400 is where the money is so we selling our delivery slots for the Airbus and adding orders for the 400. There is a fair probability of pitting one group against the other - hence the separate seniority lists.

It's pretty obvious you're either naive or a management type which in either case your responses are understandable but if you're a wanna be career guy like the rest of us then I suggest you listen to some of the previous posts and keep asking questions.

Gup

p.s. I'm an ex F9er and Potter is no Sam Adams.

Pretty good stretch. I hope your statement makes you feel superior. I am not flying anyone's flag especially management's. I was mearly disagreeing with his statement.