F9 -22.4M (Frontier)

[rtmcfi]

I would put F9's contract up against my own

So, which airline are you a pilot for? I would love to compare your pilot contract to that of F9. You are a pilot right?

 

[Bookingsareup]

Oh really?


A personal attack, even an indirect one, is still a personal attack.

If you didn't mean it to disparage me, then you wouldn't have pointed that out at all.

Everyone here sees right through you, but no worries. Keep swimming...

That's a stretch. I maintain that I have never given you a personal attack.
But, you have managed to take this conversation off into some irrelevant direction. I believe I have made my point and you yours. If you ever wish to debate a point and use facts and accurate quotes, PM me and we'll meet or have a phone conversation.

 

[USMC319]

When pilots come on here and bad mouth others for voting one way or another on their contract I think they shoud STFU and worry about themselves and their own airline. Pilots vote for what suits their individual lives and what suits their families. Its not just about money or retirement or whatever. So relax. F9 has probably the best scheduling policy in the industry and thats more important than anything to many pilots, and comparing narrowbody contracts F9 still is well above average in most sections. Good day.

 

[Blucher]

USMC319,

Please don't take this too personally. Most of us love F9 and want to see it (and it's pilots) succeed. We have also been watching the industry for quite some time and have seen this exact scenario before. You are being set up by management to be 'whip-sawed' or worse. This is the 'new' way airline managements operate. I sincerely hope I'm wrong on this even though I know I'm not. Good luck and good day to you, sir.

-Blucher

 

[flythere]

So relax. F9 has probably the best scheduling policy in the industry and thats more important than anything to many pilots, and comparing narrowbody contracts F9 still is well above average in most sections. Good day.

Are you kidding me?? Scheduling is but one part of an all around good contract!! I can bet a lot of your co-workers don't share your opinion about that statement, particularly when it comes to compensation!! Looking at your screen name, I can only assume you are or where military?? Maybe you have a retirement or some sort of financial benifit from the military!

I too have a military background, but a lot of our peers don't have that added parachute. This is their only source of income, so they are very protective of their money. Not to mention those that have been through a few of these contract talks at other carriers, they know all too well what stunts management will pull to get a contract through. Management realizes they only need 51% of the vote to be a yes on a TA.

So when magement says this is a really good deal, be suspicious!! You only need to remember one thing, Jeff Potter is there to make money for the shareholders, that's his number one goal!!!!

 

[Crossky]

Maybe this can divert you all from your little pissing match.

I like F9 but am concerned about Lynx dragging the whole thing down. Sure it'll will give your mainline feed, but will Lynx be profitable itself, including all the marketing costs? Can F9 overcome the advantage Lynx brings you with more bookings if it is a constant money loser? Maybe it's a good thing that Lynx is separate for this reason.

Continental Express was the last Rocky mtn. regional system that was connected to a major player besides United. Someone from back in the day: How did they do in regard to load factors, profitability etc., and how did UAX fare?

The way I see it is Lynx can only take away so much market share away from United Express, and IT IS going to be difficult to increase market share above what's already there. That's going to cost many marketing $M's.

Anyway best wishes fellas. I for one am bummed your first year pay dropped from $54/hr. to $37/hr.

 

[USMC319]

Are you kidding me?? Scheduling is but one part of an all around good contract!! I can bet a lot of your co-workers don't share your opinion about that statement, particularly when it comes to compensation!!

Fly,

Scheduling at F9 IS all about compensation. Our scheduling policy allows us to go on-line and pickup, drop and swap trips almost instantaneously. It is the most flexable system I have seen in this industry. Those that want to make money build up their shedules above 82 credits where they start making 125% pay rate, or a day off at $150% pay rate (FACT: several F9 pilots made $200,000+ last year). Those like me can drop down to minimum and have most of the month off to do the things in life that are really worth doing. So don't get caught up in any one line item or section.

With that said, I don't know of one F9 pilot that was OK with the scope clause, however, we were resigned by the fact that scope has never worked anywhere else in the industry (see: all Major Airlines). If airline management wants to run inefficient little 70 seat jets, then I guess we will just go out of business a little faster.

 

[Blucher]

Fly,

Scheduling at F9 IS all about compensation. Our scheduling policy allows us to go on-line and pickup, drop and swap trips almost instantaneously. It is the most flexable system I have seen in this industry. Those that want to make money build up their shedules above 82 credits where they start making 125% pay rate, or a day off at $150% pay rate (FACT: several F9 pilots made $200,000+ last year). Those like me can drop down to minimum and have most of the month off to do the things in life that are really worth doing. So don't get caught up in any one line item or section.

From what I hear B6 has the same thing, except they didn't give away potential pilot positions and they get 150% pay for everything above 70 hours in a month. Those little RJ's at B6 are flown by B6 pilots, although at a slightly different rate than those GIANT Airbi. If it makes you feel any better rumors are that Airtran's management is trying to shove the same b.s. down the pilot's throats there too. I can't imagine it will pass, but then again, I felt the same about the F9 TA. Again, good luck.

-Blucher

 

[StaySeated]

I don't understand the animosity here. If you work at F9 then you had the opportunity to vote yes or no. The ta passed, get over it an move on. I voted no for my own reasons, but I still greatly appreciate the time and effort our NC sacrificed for the pilot group. The fact remains, the new contract is not a concession. Every single pilot, including new hires at the new first year rate, will make more money over the life of the new contract than the old version all while enjoying industry leading scheduling flexibility. While you can cherry pick individual areas where compensation decreased or plateued, the OVERALL compensation has dramatically increased for everyone. My definition of "dramatically" is +10% increase in compensation annually for people in my longevity year (pretty junior).
If you don't work here, feel free to rant and rave all you want. Then, when your contract is ta'd and up for a vote, let me know where the "welfare of all other airline pilots" ranks in your voting decision. With the inefficiencies of the RLA, the NMB, and the lack of a true organized labor force, reality trumps emotion and your vote ALWAYS comes down to one thing.

Is this the best WE could do?

Simple as that. My friends at airtran or jetblue or midwest or anywhere else are simply not going to base their careers on MY livelihood here at frontier. I hope airtran gets the best contract they can obtain, and you will not hear me saying anything negative about them regardless of the outcome of the vote.

 

[USMC319]

Blucher,

Didn't mean to strike a chord by calling 70 seaters "little", sorry.

I don't understand the B6 ERJ comparison. F9 doesn't own or operate any ERJs like B6 does. I'm sure the Republic guys would love to be on our list but they are a seperate company and so is Horizon who also flies RJs for F9. This is how all RJ feed is done (except B6). The contract RJ feed for F9 was in place before this contract was even opened so I don't understand the arguement.

On the other hand we fought like he11 to get the Lynx guys (Q400) on our list even though it is also a seperate company (common holding company like NWA/Mesaba). So the choice was to allow Q400s to feed mainline from the little communities and mountain towns, or nix it. We need the feed to make mainline succeed.

In any event, the solution isn't nit picking each others contracts. The solution is to get all airline pilots into a single guild or association where standard pilot rates are set regardless of which airline you work for. Similar to the Screen Actors, or most of the Utility Unions. This will stop the whip-sawing once and for all.

 

[Blucher]

USMC319,

No worries on the 'little 70' thing, didn't bother me a bit. I was just being a bit of a smart-azz with the 'giant Airbi' thing. My appologies. More than anything I'm just speaking out of frustration because I really do love F9 and I worry for their/your future. I believe you guys have an outstanding product and from what I've seen in the past had a great working relationship with management and among the various employee groups over there. In short, you guys offered hope to some of us on the outside looking in who have major problems with our product and our employee-management relations. The whole 'holdings company' game is a vicious one that is destroying the industry and it's painful to see yet another great airline head down that one-way street. Good luck and thank you for the lift to/from my folk's house in the past and hopefully again in the future.

-Blucher

 

[USMC319]

No problem my friend. For the record, I voted NO on our contract just as a protest of the Scope Clause which was merely symbolic since scope at any airline is worthless. The big thing for me was quality of life in the scheduling section which suits me just fine. You are welcome on my flights anytime.

 

[terryhfly]

I believe that F9 has too many pilots that are at their first airline and don't know anybetter. They upgraded really fast and life is good for them. Don't rock the boat seems to be the overall mentality. This is just my opinion on why the company will always get what they want. Everyboady seems to have voted NO but it still passed by a large amount. WIERD

 

[USMC319]

I believe that F9 has too many pilots that are at their first airline and don't know anybetter. They upgraded really fast and life is good for them. Don't rock the boat seems to be the overall mentality. This is just my opinion on why the company will always get what they want. Everyboady seems to have voted NO but it still passed by a large amount. WIERD

terry,

Your statement is pretty naive (no offense). I don't know where you get your info but it seems that most of the guys I fly with are on their third or forth airline, many from Majors, and know all to well how this business works. Its airline number three for me and that is after serving a tour for Uncle Sam. Don't confuse "don't know any better" and "first airline" with people who enjoy their jobs and like the fact that the company treats them pretty damn well. Yeah we do have our contingent of Lakers and other regionalites that are first timers but they are by far the minority. And quick upgrade was a pre-911 thing. Upgrade is around 4 to 5 years now.

 

[terryhfly]

terry,

Your statement is pretty naive (no offense). I don't know where you get your info but it seems that most of the guys I fly with are on their third or forth airline, many from Majors, and know all to well how this business works. Its airline number three for me and that is after serving a tour for Uncle Sam. Don't confuse "don't know any better" and "first airline" with people who enjoy their jobs and like the fact that the company treats them pretty damn well. Yeah we do have our contingent of Lakers and other regionalites that are first timers but they are by far the minority. And quick upgrade was a pre-911 thing. Upgrade is around 4 to 5 years now.

This is my third airline as well so we got that in common. My trips have differed from yours in that most of the captains that I have flown with came from flying corp., 135 or private and Frontier is their first airline and the only airline they have worked at. Not that it makes them bad airline pilots, not at all, but it does limit their exposure to how different airlines work (the good and the bad). Issues like scope are definitely different to people who have been on the other side of the fence at regionals and that of those that have never had to deal with it. I do enjoy my job here, as do most F9 pilots. I am well aware of the upgrade time know. According to my new hire class I should have been a captain a year ago. Dang liars

 

[Porch]

I believe that F9 has too many pilots that are at their first airline and don't know anybetter. They upgraded really fast and life is good for them. Don't rock the boat seems to be the overall mentality. This is just my opinion on why the company will always get what they want. Everyboady seems to have voted NO but it still passed by a large amount. WIERD

"most of the captains that I have flown with came from flying corp., 135 or private and Frontier is their first airline and the only airline they have worked at"

True...

 

[T-Bags]

Hey USMC319, what did you fly in the Marines?