F18 Down?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If we are judging a man that he lived in house near an airport....

then what about San Clemente or Coronado? Both airfileds have approaches over the water....

Let's wait for the details....and facts....

 

[SIG600]

As to being destined to happen. Statistics do not support that...at all. There are plenty of homes right next to bases that have NOT had a plane drop on. I live near one right now and cannot think of a single time a plane has crashed into a house. I can think of plenty of crashes that have been AWAY from base that HAVE found their way into homes. It is not like homes near a military base are plane magnets...are they at higher risk..sure.

F-14 crash after take off from KBNA, 3 on the ground killed

F-16, Pensacola, 4y/o boy killed in his house

Evansville IN, C-130 kills 11 in 1992

1995 T-38 crashes into apt complex after takeoff, kills 2.

U-2 lost after takeoff from Beale, 1 on ground killed.

T-38 crashes on short final at KVPS and goes into a house.

AA A300 crashed after takeoff from NY in Nov '01.

Just the ones I could come up with off the top of my head, or from other threads. Check your stats again. Living within 2NM of an airfield ups your chances, and makes it a statistical certainty that it will happen to someone. Everyone at Oceana NAS agrees it's only a matter of time before it happens. I pray it doesn't, but the odds of NEVER are pretty slim. Come to think of it, every T-45 that's been lost in recent memory (7 or so) were all in the traffic pattern. Luckily, no one has been dumb enough to drop a development next to either location.

Airplanes congregate at airports, and airplanes crash from time to time. Same theory can be applied to traffic accidents at major intersections vice a long stretch of country road.

Back on topic, I pray that they both find peace within themselves over this.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Everyone at Oceana NAS agrees it's only a matter of time before it happens. I pray it doesn't, but the odds of NEVER are pretty slim.

Already has - late 80's A-6 crashed just after takeoff onto Oceana Blvd just outside the fence. Pilot and B/N ejected too late and were killed. So was the pregrant lady driving her car that was hit by the aircraft. Making it worse, pilot error caused this one.

 

[JungleJett]

Pilot error is normally to blame in about 80% of all accidents.

 

[milky]

What I would be concerned about would be the choices he makes if he were to find himself in a similar position again.

You need to STFU. You don't know anything about what happened or what caused this. You don't know if he did the exact right thing or not.

And to add to the list, an F/A-18 crashed just short of the runway (1-2 miles IIRC) at Miramar about 2 years ago. Fortunately, it was in one of the few pieces of dirt that was owned by the base on final to that runway.

 

[Cat3C]

F18

I think I saw a Picture on one of the media outlets of the pilot standing in front or near the house/crash site. I cannot imagine the weight on the pilot and the family. Everyone lost. I think the idea of the pilot meeting with the family is a fantastic idea but an extremtly tough one. I hope that they all have some guidance from church or whatever gives them strength. I also hope that the pilot gets back into the air sooner rather than later.

Let the investigators work through this so hopefully-potentially this may not happen again. We all know that this can be a dangerous game we are in. Lets all be on the same team.

Just my thoughts - don't hang me on it

 

[JungleJett]

You need to STFU. You don't know anything about what happened or what caused this. You don't know if he did the exact right thing or not.

And to add to the list, an F/A-18 crashed just short of the runway (1-2 miles IIRC) at Miramar about 2 years ago. Fortunately, it was in one of the few pieces of dirt that was owned by the base on final to that runway.

What is your aviation background?

I would be willing to be that next time that young Marine finds himself in a jet that is not working right, this incident will pop up in his head...if ever so briefly. I am not questioning whether he did the right thing or not but flying skills and judgment is based on past experience and training. This experience will most likely effect his judgment IF he finds himself in a similar situation. Statistics and studies prove it. The man is human and has suffered a traumatic event and one that he will remember for the rest of his life. It WILL be there when and if. This is in no way an indictment on his abilities as a pilot, Marine, or a human being. He is not super human...this will stick with him. I am sure he will have the mental and emotional fortitude to strap a jet back on and be a wonderful asset to the community.

The same factors effect ground forces to include the most elite of special operations forces. It is the sum of their experiences both good and bad that help guide their actions when bullets start flying.

Let me suggest a good book called "On Combat" by Dave Grossman. http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Psychology-Physiology-Deadly-Conflict/dp/0964920514

There are no pictures in it...just so you know.

 

[Andy Neill]

Wow...we could all learn a lot from this man. [Yoon]

Behavior like Mr Yoon's has been one of the scarce bright spots in human behavior over the last few years. More and more I am seeing forgiveness and less emphasis on blame and revenge. I hear more things like "This has been a terrible family tragedy but we forgive the [other]" and fewer things like "They took her away and I will never forgive them."

Somehow, the spirit of forgiveness is growing.

 

[Birdstrike]

Behavior like Mr Yoon's has been one of the scarce bright spots in human behavior over the last few years. More and more I am seeing forgiveness and less emphasis on blame and revenge.

Agree. In Mr. Yoon's case it appears he draws his incredible strength from his faith. He was quoted by the LA Times, "I believe my wife and two babies and mother-in-law are in heaven with God." The article also referenced that he attends the Korean United Methodist Church of San Diego.

Too often Christians appear in a paper because of reprehensible public behavior. It's encouraging to see this humble man instead proving to be such a public example of grace and forgiveness in the midst of this tragic event.

 

[Papps]

Yeah this whole thing sucks, the pilot and Yoon both have alot of tough years ahead of them.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Somehow, the spirit of forgiveness is growing.

The Sunflower by Wiesenthal

 

[milky]

What is your aviation background?

I would be willing to be that next time that young Marine finds himself in a jet that is not working right, this incident will pop up in his head...if ever so briefly. I am not questioning whether he did the right thing or not but flying skills and judgment is based on past experience and training. This experience will most likely effect his judgment IF he finds himself in a similar situation. Statistics and studies prove it. The man is human and has suffered a traumatic event and one that he will remember for the rest of his life. It WILL be there when and if. This is in no way an indictment on his abilities as a pilot, Marine, or a human being. He is not super human...this will stick with him. I am sure he will have the mental and emotional fortitude to strap a jet back on and be a wonderful asset to the community.

The same factors effect ground forces to include the most elite of special operations forces. It is the sum of their experiences both good and bad that help guide their actions when bullets start flying.

Let me suggest a good book called "On Combat" by Dave Grossman. http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Psychology-Physiology-Deadly-Conflict/dp/0964920514

There are no pictures in it...just so you know.

Every experience you have flying should affect future behavior or else you are not learning from your experience. We don't know how this played out, so speculation as to how it would/should affect him is a futile effort at best.

I fly the same jets that crashed. Until a few months ago, I was in instructor for a squadron exactly like the one of which he belonged. I have investigated crashes like this. I have combat experience. We don't know anything about what happened here. Those of us that have the right access will know in approximately 30 days. Beyond that, it'll be whatever they tell the media.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

F-14 crash after take off from KBNA, 3 on the ground killed.

This was serious pilot error. The pilots family was at the airport and he was showing off.

In other words it was negligence and a doesn't help the arguement of houses should not be near airports.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Pilot error is normally to blame in about 80% of all accidents.

Whatever. Heavy tanker going to the ship. Pilot thought it would be sh!t hot and to do a low transition and then wrapped it up very low, high g, high AOB turn. Departed (stalled) and they ejected low and inverted and never even got seat-man sep. when they hit the ground. Jet then hit the lady driving down the road and killed her too. Just like the BNA F-14, 100% pilot error and 100% avoidable. Pretty sad.

 

[bagasticks]

This was serious pilot error. The pilots family was at the airport and he was showing off.

In other words it was negligence and a doesn't help the arguement of houses should not be near airports.

not to mention it was the second tom kitty that individual had donated back to the tax payer. .

 

[AEROSQUADRON69]

Awww, the local townhall meetings here are nuts.
Marines spokesperson...These jets can safely fly on one engine....Homeowner, apparently NOT! Without details, that some serious stuff went wrong.
Another person...How come they didn't divert him to another airport away from homes. No thought process at all. They need some aviation reps or something.
Last but not least! My children cry every time they say a plane overhead now. Possible and sad if true.

 

[lowtimedriver]

Prayers go to the pilot and those who lost family members. Any guesses why the pilot didn't divert to North Island as opposed to Miramar? Only thing I can think is that he may have been closer to Miramar than North Island when he lost his first engine...

 

[Fearless Tower]

He could have just as easily taken out a house on Coranado or even the Del itself going into NZY.

The bottom line is, the F-18 is a freaking multi-engine airplane. If a 737 enroute to LAX loses an engine, we don't divert the bloody thing to Mojave or Edwards AFB, so a decision to return the aircraft to its home field after losing one of 2 engines over the ocean doesn't seem like a horrible violation of ORM. Good grief, how on earth did we ever survive before the hornet when we were flying A-4s and A-7s?

 

[ableone]

The difference is that an F-18's engines are adjacent to each other and an uncontained failure will probably damage the other engine while this failure mode is unlikely in a 737.

We will have to wait for the investigation results. I just hope it is not something stupid like fuel exhaustion.

 

[SIG600]

The difference is that an F-18's engines are adjacent to each other and an uncontained failure will probably damage the other engine while this failure mode is unlikely in a 737.

We will have to wait for the investigation results. I just hope it is not something stupid like fuel exhaustion.

Dude, shut up and stop speculating. You know nothing of the Hornet, it's systems, internal structure, etc.

30 days from the accident the SIR will be released, until then everything else is the opinions of the uneducated.