Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

F15 Vs F16

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

B-J-J Fighter

Royce Gracie in Action
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Posts
1,118
Im giving serious thought to joing the AF of Navy and trying to get a flying slot. Im 25 just graduated college with a 3.2 GPA. What are the major differences in the roles of these 2 a/c? Which is more fun to fly and which of the 2 does the AF have more of? Give me some numbers on both if you don't mind.

WHat all do I need to better ny chances of getting a slot? Im a CFI/II with a little over 1000 hours and about 500 dual given. Im in great physical shape, I workout and coach high school wrestling. What do I need to better my chances and make sure I pass the physical? Thanks!
 
Eagle Vs. Viper

Ahhh, the great debate. Which is a better jet, the Eagle or the Viper?

Since it is late, I will only give a flippant answer--I'm sure (after the flames have subsided) we will provide more concrete, substantial opinions. But....

1. OK, the only reason the AF bought more F-16's is because they knew the attrition rate was going to be bad...

2. If you want to own your own F-16, buy an acre of land near Luke AFB (in Arizona) ...then wait.

3. You can recognize most Viper, er, Fighting Falcon pilots by their sloping foreheads and knuckles that often drag the floor. And those are the better looking ones. Not that I was looking, of course...

ACTUALLY, the F-16 is a great airplane with a ton of missions--you would never go wrong to get one out of pilot training. The F-15C is a great jet, but will be slowly phased out beginning in 04 as the F-22 comes on line. However, the Eagle will be around until 2025 or so since the AF isn't buying enough F-22s to satisfy all of the requirements. It is still the world's pre-eminent air to air fighter despite the advances made by the Russians and Europeans.

The F-15E is virtually a new jet with a substantial increase in air to ground capability--it is a SH machine with a long life ahead of it.

Enough of this serious stuff--here's the straight poop.

Chicks dig Eagle drivers.

Fight's on!

Best of luck, by the way, Jiu Jitsu man. Don't sweat the physical issue, either. Just make sure that your eyesight is still 20-20 and you will be fine. If not, well....maybe LASIK or another option will be approved one day soon.
 
I think a lot of times guys get wrapped up in appearances, and don’t really think about the mission of the aircraft. It seems that most guys out of pilot training want the F-15 because of it’s reputation of air superiority. Other guys want the F-16 because it’s a badass little plane with a hell of a performance capability. Remember that while you are choosing the plane, you’re also choosing the mission. Both of these aircraft are less than a decade from being replaced, but their missions will likely remain the same. For the F-15, that’s air-to-air and for the F-16, that’s dual role of A/A and air-to-ground.

I’ve always wanted to do A/G, which is the only reason I didn’t want an F-15C. But, I’m not a big fan of the viper’s single engine, so if I hadn’t gotten a Strike Eagle, I would have chosen an A-10 before an F-16. I’m obviously biased towards the F-15E (not sure if you meant to include that – you only specified F-15) because of its mission and the capability to perform it. We are dual-role like the 16, but because of the dude in the back seat, we can perform it better. While we’re rooting through the weeds at 500+ knots in the middle of the night getting ready to drop bombs, I can be primarily concerned with flying the jet, not hitting the ground, and maintaining formation while my WSO can focus his attention on finding and designating the target. It can be argued that when we go to the A/A arena, two people=half the SA. I’ve seen this happen in cases, and I’ve seen where it is just the opposite, it all depends on the crew.

In terms of aircraft performance (G-loading and turn capability), a good C driver is going to probably outperform us, and even a bad viper driver can do the same. The “Strike Pig” is a lot heavier than the other two, and will bleed off its energy quickly in an A/A engagement. When you get to UPT, you’ll have IPs from every airframe who will tell you why theirs is the best and everyone else’s sucks (like I’m sure you’ll get here). Take it all in and make your decision from there.

As to what to do to better your chances – it sounds like you have plenty of hours. Don’t worry about the fitness thing – there’s a weight lifting test you have to take in UPT, but it’s fairly cake. And unless you’ve got some kind of medical problem (asthma, color blindness, etc.) you won’t have any problems with the physical.
 
Eagles Vs. Vipers

BJJ,
Having flown both I'll try and give you a fair assessment of which one I preferred. In my experience, the Viper was the most "fun" and capable fighter to fly. (Sorry Flipper...but it is just personal preference). My reasons were that it can literally turn up it's own A$$, has the same long range weapons capability as the Eagle. You also get to blow *&it up as a dual role fighter. The jets are sexy and contrary to popular belief, women love me !! Not Eagle Drivers, although I can fall back on that if I have to!!

Just get to UPT, stay focused on what you want to do. If it's fighters you really want, then strive for perfection so you have the option when assignments come around (sts). Either jet and you'll have a blast.

And as far as the physical stuff...come on we're in the Air Force....
 
If you mean "manly" like the S-3 I'll stick to my "girlish" F15. I'll accept landing on my 13k plus runway to not fly orbits above the boat.

Reuter...you sick pig. You always wanted a Viper. BAAD DOG!

Albie
(Up to my A$$ in 727 systems...)
 
Albie -- As long as we are talking about which jet is sexier, the A320 is way cooler than the ancient 727!! And a side stick is way sexier than side saddle! You picked a way of life, not the airplane or mission!

Future military pilots -- That's something important to remember for anybody considering the Navy or Marines. Let's see... 9 months on a boat or flying combat missions from the comfort of home... the choice seems easy to me. OK, before you all light up your blow torches, I'll admit that sitting in Saudi isn't a ton of fun. I've done lots of time in Saudi. But a 2-3 month TDY sure beats the boat rides. I've also flown combat missions from the heartland and gone to sleep in my own bed at the end of the day. Not a bad way to fight a war.

BTW, it's real easy to argue F-16 vs. F-15 on your way to pilot training. After your first few flights in a jet , the reality of UPT sets in and you will be happy just to graduate and thrilled if you make the fighter/bomber cut. Just do your best and if you are #1 in your class then you can make the choice. Everybody else will probably not get much say. Needs of the AF, and all that. Good luck!
 
Sick DOG

Reuter, the only thing that I can say is that you must have gotten a lobotomy prior to making field grade....You prefer a Wiper? Ugh!

I'm not helping you learn you A-320 flows, ex-pal o' mine...Not til you take it all back.

Albie, take a break from that panel and come to our aid. Write a three page diatribe on how the Eagle will eventually rule the world despite aching longerons.

Flipper--my brain is becoming newly wrinkled...FMS, FMGC, DUs, ELAC, ohmybuddah!
 
Roddy said:
Land an F-14 (way sexier jet) on a pitching deck of a carrier and you have arrived as an aviator.

I think I missed that change to 3-1 when they decided that the winners of wars are determined by how well you can land on boats.
 
Last edited:
The Battle Herk

Now, if you're going to have a discussion regarding the best aircraft around, one cannot exclude the mighty and venerable Battle Herk.
I know you jet guys fly fast and look sexy in the g-suits, but while you're pulling g's, I'm pulling the lever on the coffee pot for another cup of joe after taking a nap and making a head call......
And there is a benefit to having your own party on wheels going with you and your own import/export service when coming back from places that sell cool beer/liquor/misc goodies.
Personally, I fly the KC-130 for the Marines. The cameraderie is like no other community, I'm convinced...but then I'm biased... :)
Crews ranging from PFC's to Col's.
Granted, I don't get to drop bombs (which, I admit is pretty cool) and I respect the hell out of you guys for going downtown, but just as a reminder, it was a Marine Battle Herk that put the first grunts on the ground at Camp Rhino........To win the war, you've got to own the ground

Not trying to incite any riots, but had to complete the discussion.

And, now that's the rest of the story.....Good day

Piggy
 
Flipper I'm Sorry!!!

Flipper, I'm sorry. What was I thinking? It must have been the oxygen deprivation from flying U-2's.. Okay, I got another shot from the bottle (Thanks Grandma) and now I'm seeing things clearly..... Now can I have that list of nightclubs and restaurants in Miami????
 
No...you'll suffer through VACBI Bob like the rest of us and have no life for at least the first 4 weeks.

After that, well....South Beach does have it's...high points.

EAGLES RULE!
 
First, if you want to fly join the Air Force.

bgs is right on. You can go to UPT with the highest of expectations, but you can find yourself treading in deep water real fast if you're not careful.

I am glad to see a non-fighter respond, although most -130 guys like to think that since they fly low levels they are like a fighter. You need to set priorities, some of mine include being able to stand up, having a real bathroom, no DV flying, warm food (no box lunches) and not getting shot at. The C-9 epitomizes these priorities. Yes, I would love to be able to take a fighter out for a joy ride a few times a month.

Another thing you need to realize is timing makes a huge difference in your career.

See
 
Fly Navy

For all you USAF pilots: here is a quick refresher about the great job Naval Aviators are doing. (With a special thanks to all the hot sh*t SpecOps guys on the ground lasering that ordinance in on target.)



Navy News & Undersea Technology
January 22, 2002 Pg. 1

Navy Pilots Set Flying And Target Records In Afghanistan
By Lisa Troshinsky

SAN DIEGO, CALIF. -- The success of Operation Enduring Freedom
validated many Navy assets by setting Navy flying and target hit records,
said Navy top officials at last week's AFCEA/Naval Institute conference,
titled "West 2002."

Operating against a landlocked nation, over 70 percent of the strike
sorties were flown by naval aviation, said Vice Adm. Mike Mullen, Deputy
Chief of Naval Operations for Resources, Requirements, and Assessments.

"Eighty percent of our sorties hit targets; 84 percent of our strikers
[4,000 sorties] who dropped ordnance hit at least one target; and 93
percent of the ordnance dropped were Precision Guided Munitions," Mullen
said. "And the Navy was over the target 24/7, and still is. In addition,
the only significant conventional land force presence in country for the
opening phases of the campaign was provided by the Marine Corps 15th
Marine Expeditionary Unit from the Peleliu Amphibious Ready Group."

Plus, "80 percent of Navy sorties that delivered [ordnance] did so against
targets unknown to the pilots when they landed," said Vice Adm. John
Natham, Commander, Naval Air Force, U.S. Pacific Fleet.

"Afghanistan was the complete opposite from what happened in Desert
Storm, where the Navy averaged 10 aircraft per target," Natham said.
"In Afghanistan, there were two targets per aircraft."

"Also, the Navy's strike missions in Afghanistan averaged between seven
and 10 hours per flight," Natham said. "In fact, over half the pilots in
Air Wing 11, Pacific Command, set flying hour records-recording 1,400
hours in one month, while the average is 72 hours a month. Air Wing 11
also had a two percent higher than average maintenance ready rate."

In order to gain air supremacy, the Navy used its EA/6Bs for electronic
jamming of communications, its F-14 Tomcats for precision targeting
coordinates, and Navy fighters escorted Air Force bombers, Natham said.
Tomcats passed Global Positioning System coordinates to aircraft so they
could load up JDAMS (Joint Direct Attack Munition).

The Navy, in turn, was assisted by the Air Force for lift, munitions, and
for shared intelligence and surveillance to reach targets in northern
Afghanistan, he said. JFAC (Joint Force Air Component) escorted forces
until air supremacy was established, then their aircraft flew without
escorts, Natham said.

"Our on-station attack submarines launched over 50 percent of all the
Tomahawk strikes," Mullen said. "Within days, our naval forces were
critical to establishing complete maritime situational awareness, on which
we have built with the most extensive maritime interdiction operations
ever-a model for future operations in the global war on terrorism."

"Since 1989, even though the Navy's battle force has been reduced by 43
percent, strike missile magazine space has actually increased and the
accuracy, flexibility, responsiveness and lethality of each weapon in the
magazine has improved-in some cases by an order of magnitude," he said.

"An example: In Desert Storm in 1991, the Tomahawk targeting cycle was
three days. During Allied Force in 1999, that targeting cycle was reduced
to 101 minutes. In Enduring Freedom it was down to 19 minutes in some
cases. We are now planning systems that allow near real-time targeting
and retargeting in flight by 2004," Mullen said.

"For thousands of years-the conventional wisdom has required a five to
one advantage of offense to defense to predominate in an assault," Mullen
said. "We rewrote the rule book in Afghanistan. Using Joint Special
Operating Forces, persistent intelligence, surveillance and
reconnaissance, strategic airlift and in-flight tanking from the Air Force
and sea-based precision strike, our Afghan allies, though outnumbered
two-to-one by a dedicated and well-resourced Taliban and al Qaeda foe,
overran Afghanistan in a campaign so short we didn't even have time to
negotiate the basing rights in neighboring allied countries."

Readiness On Target

The Navy's state of readiness was key to success in the recent conflict in
Afghanistan, Natham and Mullen said.

"On Sept. 11, based on CNN press reports, and acting on their own
initiative, the Enterprise Battle Group reversed the course they had
shaped to return home from their six-month deployment and were on
station the next morning, ready to answer the nation's call," Mullen said.

"Literally within hours, Navy assets were in place to conduct strikes
against targets in Afghanistan, well ahead of all other elements of the
joint team," Mullen said. "Under verbal orders, while mission planning was
in progress, and with a small air wing detachment, one of our carriers
[USS Kitty Hawk] steamed 6,000 miles at flank speed to establish a forward
operating base for our joint special operating forces. They are now looking
to
the Navy to capture this sea based capability for the future."

At the same time, an amphibious ready group were immediately ready to
deploy in the conflict. They were later joined by USS Carl Vinson, the
USS Teddy Roosevelt, and the USS John C. Stennis, Natham said.

Natham added that sovereignty of U.S. Naval forces was proven, especially
by the fact that three countries, which he declined to name, that are
located close to the Area of Responsibility (AOR), didn't "roll up their
sleeves to help," he said. "And finally, the conflict in Afghanistan
proved the enabling of joint forces," he said. This included working
closely with NATO allies in figuring out what the battlespace looked
like."
 
Dave,
No doubt there is a place for Naval Aviation.

No doubt the Naval Aviators are doing a great job in the fight in Afganistan.

---------------

Life comes down to preferences...mine was to not spend time on a big boat.

I hope that anyone requesting advice from anonymous sources like this board can objectively read our information, then make an educated decision on one's own. Don't take our word, do your own research or you may be sorry.

See
 
One thing to think about is that the F-15C is the safest airplane in the inventory. All it can do is cruise majestically above the battlefield. The enemy will do its best to just ignore it, since it can't really hurt anybody. The Soviet Horde it was designed to counter is just gone, leaving it without a mission.

Jim
 
Seenier,

Speaking on behalf of Herc drivers everywhere.... bit me. Let's just run down a little laundry list of us supposed "fighter puke" wannabes. Land it on a carrier,..ah yup, deliver trash and gas at the same time..you betcha. Equipped to drop the largest conventional bomb in the inventory.. I do believe so. And if we are going to get down to brass tacks and start comparing gun sizes I'm thinkin my brothers from the Spooky community have that one rapped up as well. As for me I'm just a lowly Coastie who gets to drop a raft on your head after you go swimming. Assumming I'm not too busy day dreaming about being a fighter puke. Oh yes my friend the C-130 community has many sins and vices, envy is just not one of them.

Fly Safe
ck130
 
B-J-J,

I'd love to fly a fighter once but when given the choice for a career... no way! If you are given the choice, pick the aircraft and community that best suits you.

Seeniner,

You can't compare a C-9 to a C-130. Really, when it comes to tactical employment a C-9 is something that doesn't come to mind. It is a nice aircraft and I'm sure you are happy flying it. It has creature comforts and carries stuff to improved airstrips... but the comparison stops there.

-Mike
 
Seeniner said:
Dave,

Life comes down to preferences...mine was to not spend time on a big boat.

I hope that anyone requesting advice from anonymous sources like this board can objectively read our information, then make an educated decision on one's own. Don't take our word, do your own research or you may be sorry.

See

Seeniner;

When the young man asked for advice in choosing USN or USAF aviation, you were more than happy to make your strong recommendations based upon your personal preferences. When an alternative recommendation is made for another branch of service, you suddenly begin to warn about seeking advice on this board.

I don't know what you are more defensive about; the USAF or your personal comfort and safety concerns which you say drove your decision to fly the C-9. We all know it is more likely that your flight school class ranking is the true reason you ended up where you did; not your need for a head, hot meals, hot coffee and no one shooting at you.
 
F-16 v F-15

I'd like to enter into the fight...back to the original question.

Mission: Eagle drivers will tell you that the Viper doesn't do any mission very well. What that really means is that the Viper does so many missions (AA, SEAD, CAS, NVG, TGP, BAI) that it's hard to get really good at one particular mission such as what the Eagle has-AA only. This is true and when an Eagle driver screws up his lone mission he will probably tell you why. They better be good at their lone mission. In the meantime, I'll be enjoying a good variety of missions that keep the pace fast and the boredom low.
Winner: F-16

Jet: F-15 is a huge jet that can be seen with the naked eye more than twice as far away than a Viper. This gives me a HUGE advantage in an ACM fight. F-15 has two engines. That's a nice bonus, but the single engine failures are not very common outside of Luke AFB. As an example, I have been in two F-16 squadrons that have a combined total of 24 years flying the F-16 without a single engine failure! The Viper is a smaller, sleeker, sexier jet. Loaded it will out perform an Eagle every day. My block 30 big mouth puts out 28,000 lbs of thrust to push a jet that is barely over 20k clean. That's a much better thrust to weight ratio.
By the way, the Eagle uses the Pratt & Wimpy motor - the same one that keeps failing- while I enjoy a nice GE motor. I'd say most people that have flown both will say that flying the F-15 v F-16 is like comparing a Caddy to a Ferrari.
Winner: F-16

Air to Ground: F-15C - nothing. F-15E: Good bomber, but all above applies.
Winner: F-16

Air to Air: The Eagle drivers will say that the F-15 is better A-A. That's a little misleading. Here's the way it really works:
1-The Eagles are more proficient at it. It's their only mission.
2-The Eagle is a bigger jet, therefore they have a bigger radar. Unfortunately they forget about the fact that in both jets the limiting factor is the missile, not the radar, so that arguement is moot.
3-No Eagle driver can look me in the eyes and say that they really stand a chance against a Viper in a dogfight. Let me explain: Keeping sight is very important. I can see that barn several miles away. He can't see me until much closer. Once we merge, I can pull 9 g's, He can only give 8.5, and by the way he can only do it for a couple of seconds, whereas I can pull 9 g's and continue to accelerate. We have the same weapons. If we merge 180 degrees out and have no restrictions on either side, I will win that fight EVERY time.
Winner: F-16 (By the way, I have yet to get gunned by a 15)

And regarding the chicks comment: Last I heard that would be a minority yearning in an Eagle squadron-not that there's anything "wrong with that".
 
Something to consider.......

Number of aircraft killed by F-15A,B,C,D's in ACTUAL COMBAT: 104

Number of F-15A,B,C,D's killed by other aircraft in ACTUAL COMBAT: ZERO
 
Actually,
Number of Eagles killed in air to air combat is 1 (desert storm, and highly debatable).
Number of Vipers killed in air to air combat is 0.
Viper credited with first 4 AMRAAM kills.
Eagle got the fifth, but it was friendly.
Also, although an F-15 limped back to base, he was still shot by his wingman with a sidewinder. Ouch!
 
Background

F15 lost in desert storm was an F15E from Seymour. No C models lost.

This banter is a bit N/A, since Eagles will continue to get fragged for Air Superiority mission (OCA Sweep, DCA Cap, and no-fly zone enforement) while Vipers will contiue to do some of the same missions but will also have to tackle SEAD, BAI, and AI missions as well. We fight each other in training to hone our skills against a dissimliar adversary. Of course we are all proud of our respective weapon systems, but the fact is in combat we are on the same side.

The helicopter shootdown in N. Iraq was tragic. I think slamming the pilots in question, dispite the mistake, was a cheap shot. Eventually, both left the AF never to fly again. Its easy to question everyone's actions in hindsight but I was a young flightlead at the time and I can't say I would have made the 100% right choice. Can you look yourself in the mirror and know you wouldn't have shot that day? I think since that date we are all much more cautious and conservative.

As for anyone that says "I never got shot by an Eagle.." well...good for you. I've drilled a lot of Vipers in BFM, and I've also been shot a few times (not nearly as many...) as well. Usually the difference is in the experience of the pilot. I would argue if you flew against some experienced Eagle IPs or patch wearers the results might not be so one sided. Maybe on your next WSEP I can learn something from you (and that's not a poke in the ribs...) If you are as good as you claim, look up my buddies in the F15C division when you go to the Viper division for weapons school. I'm sure even if you can punish them they will make you work for it. On the other hand, if you are feeling good about yourself because you can beat up on 300 hour flight lead or young wingman--good for you. I'm sure you are a chick magnet at the bar...

On the same side,

Albie
 
Re: Background

AlbieF15 said:
F15 lost in desert storm was an F15E from Seymour. No C models lost.
Three total E-models were lost during Desert Shield/Storm. Exactly *none* of them were lost to air-air engagements:

One was lost on a training sortie during Desert Shield during a botched LOWAT stern conversion -- both crew (Hook and Poulet, both Rocketeers) killed.

One was lost during the Basrah raid for unknown reasons -- while it may have been AAA, it's suspected that the crew simply threat reacted into the dirt (it was night) -- both crew (Holland and Koritz) killed.

The last one was shot down by an SA-2; both crew (which included the Wing DO) were taken POW.

One the other hand, you're also omitting the only Air-Air kill by an F-15E: A Mi-24 shot down by a GBU-10. This was officially credited as an Air-to-air kill on 2 November 2001.

The "Fox Two Your Flight Lead" occurred on 19 March 1990 up at Emendorf; F-15C #81-0054 was partially damaged (left stab blown off) by an AIM-9P. I'll post a photo here if I can figure out how.
 
Re: F-16 v F-15

av8instyle said:

Air to Ground: F-15C - nothing. F-15E: Good bomber, but all above applies.
Winner: F-16

That's a pretty bold statement, making the Strike Eagle the "loser" of the air-to-ground comparison with absolutely zero to back it up, other than "it's big and it has weak engines".

Last I checked, what mattered in air-to-mud was how much ordnance you could put on how many targets and how precisely.

So, let's compare:

Missions: That's nice that you quote so many different missions that the Viper can perform. The 15E can, and does, do the same (and some more), save for SEAD. Winner: Draw

Types of Ordnance: Hmm, the F-15E can carry everything that the Viper can with the exception of the HARM. The F-15E can carry and employ the AGM-130 and GBU-28, which the Viper cannot. Since the Bunker Buster and AGM are quite in vogue with the JFACC these days, I think we can safely say....Winner: Beagle

Amount of Ordnance: The Strike Eagle can tote 20K # of bombs. The Viper can carry somewhere on the order of 15K. Do the math. Did I mention that we can also carry a 3 x 1 air to air load with the CFTs full of bombs and two bags of gas hanging under the wings? Winner: Beagle

Precision Targeting: Yup, some Vipers can employ LANTIRN, but can you *effectively* do it at night and low level? Nope. Low at night is "exclusive turning room" owned by the 15E. How about a self-guide GBU-24 down in the weeds? Didn't think so -- also exclusively 15E territory. How about PGMs? Can you shoot an AGM-130? Nope. How about air-to-ground fighter datalink? If you don't have the Handheld Terminal Unit or your funny little integrated data modem, can you do comm-out XINT or TCT? Nope. Also exclusive Mud Eagle capabilities. Winner: Beagle

So, let's be fair and call a spade a spade. The Viper is a great, low-cost, lightweight multirole fighter. Comparing it to the "heavy hitters" and pontificating about how great it is all around is comparing apples to oranges. Different airplanes for different missions.
 
Ouch!

I knew I would get some Eagle feedback, but I didn't realize the hostility and resentment that would pour forth.

Relax Eagle guys, you have a good jet too.
 
FB-15

So, let's be fair and call a spade a spade. The Viper is a great, low-cost, lightweight multirole fighter. Comparing it to the "heavy hitters" and pontificating about how great it is all around is comparing apples to oranges. Different airplanes for different missions.

Precision Targeting: Yup, some Vipers can employ LANTIRN, but can you *effectively* do it at night and low level? Nope. Low at night is "exclusive turning room" owned by the 15E. How about a self-guide GBU-24 down in the weeds? Didn't think so -- also exclusively 15E territory.

First, why would you want to be down low at night to begin with?? Second, the Viper does everything the FB-15 does at the cost of only one crewmember.

I can't wait until the EF-15 comes on line, then you mud-eagle boys and girls will have something to squawk about won't you??
 
So once again it is 104 to ZERO, and you can throw in one more Viper guy who doesn't take the time to get his facts straight.
 
So you're counting all the Israeli kills in your post of 104 to zero?? Typical of an ExNav, I have my **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** straight brother, done both and know what the real deal is... If you want to tool around (no pun intended) in an FB-15 Then by all means go right ahead. I'll stick with something that outperforms any jet currently on the market.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom