F D X v. S W A

[Purpled]

You see there are these things called "room parties", where crews go after the bar closes, drink "herb's booze", and...

... use your imagination.


... now double the rauciousness that you were imagining.


Kid Rock ain't seen nothing like a weekend PM at the Main Sail.

From where are you importing these good looking women who haven't been poked by every pilot on the line? Almaty doesn't count.

Now the cheap booze at these parties has a lot of merit...how do you get Herb to pay?

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

I have a question.

Some of you have mentioned SWA and FedEx guys pulling in $250K/yr. Looking at the pay, SWA tops out at $198/hr, and FedEx at $206/hr.

I averaged the top pay for the legacies. Top pay averages to $181/hr. Although this is less than SWA and FedEx, it would appear guys at the legacies shouldn't be making a lot less than those at SWA and FedEx, from looking at that. My question is; if some SWA and FedEx guys are pulling in $250K/yr, shouldn't some at the legacies still be pulling in around $200K/yr, or am I missing something? In fact, if $198/hr = $250K/yr, then $181/hr = $228K/yr.

Again, I may be missing something, but it seems as though the legacy guys are still doing pretty well, considering pay cuts.

 

[Falconjet]

Wow. That was stupid. I hope you live in Memphis.

Radar: Stupid is as stupid does. Lumping in FedEx with "night freight" as you so often do is quite ignorant. Yes we fly at night. Normally we don't fly all night. You might fly 2 legs during the critical (2-8am) period. They are usually pretty short legs too. There is much more to FedEx however than "night freight".

You are the one who is coming off as stupid, and you obviously don't know WTF you are talking about.

QF: Congrats on the offers.

Anecdotal evidence at best, but I only know of one person who had the choice in the past 4 years that went with SW. I know of several that had the choice and went with Purple (self included).

It isn't a slam dunk in either direction, its a tough choice and definitely one that requires a lot of soul searching and outside advice. In the end, though, you have to be able to sleep at night with your choice.

For me the domicile/commuting issue was king. I would look long and hard at where you want to live and where you have to commute to. That will most likely have the most impact on your quality of life at either exceptional company.

Good luck with your decision.

FJ

 

[radarlove]

Pilot on the rise: You're oversimplifying. You can't compare apples to oranges, the question is "how many credit hours" does a pilot get, not "what is the pay rate per hour".

If everyone only flew 83 hours and got 83 hours of credit, your analysis makes sense, but different airlines do it differently. I know that check airmen at Jet Blue can easily get 120 credit hours per month, UAL pilots used to get credit for lots of stuff that wasn't hard flying, and Fedex pilots really don't fly too much compared to passenger airlines, so they get pay credit and rigs.

From the folks I know that do it, it's possible to make more than $300k at Fedex (it's also possible at SWA according to rumor I don't know anyone that does it there), it's certainly reasonable to make $225k at SWA as a captain and at UAL now, the captain pay is now around the $130k to $150k, same as Jet Blue.

Also SWA has that weird trips for pay system that I get bored hearing the explanation to, so I don't know much about it. As far as I can tell, it's a cross between houly pay and mileage pay and too complicated for me to care too much about.

Oh, and Falcon guy, night freight sucks. Day freight sucks. You're on the freight ramp using porta-potties when the passenger guys are drinking Starbucks and picking up a copy of Maxim.

The lifestyles are totally different. Flying freight means sitting around a lot, frieght ramps, K-loaders and other un-romantic stuff. Yes, you get to see International stuff, but one of the most pathetic sights I've seen was in Paris at an art museum.

Three Fedex guys were wandering through the museum, "chatting" with each other about the art. They were stiff and uncomfortable and stuck together to see the sights, just like they had probably just been stuck together for ten hours flying across the Atlantic. If that's the romantic life of an international pilot (hanging out with your crew of uptight guys who complain about the cost of admission to a museum) then you probably made the right choice.

 

[Purpled]

much about.

Oh, and Falcon guy, night freight sucks. Day freight sucks. You're on the freight ramp using porta-potties when the passenger guys are drinking Starbucks and picking up a copy of Maxim.

The lifestyles are totally different. Flying freight means sitting around a lot, frieght ramps, K-loaders and other un-romantic stuff.

Are you for real? Get a grip. Port-a-potty? Sorry that you either got turned down or are too immature to admit that you don't know wtf you're talking about.

 

[Malter1]

The lifestyles are totally different. Flying freight means sitting around a lot, frieght ramps, K-loaders and other un-romantic stuff. Yes, you get to see International stuff, but one of the most pathetic sights I've seen was in Paris at an art museum.

Have you seen the "romance" on the A&E show "Airline"? Now that is romantic. A guy trying to board that smelled so bad, the gate agent had to kick him off the plane. A bum trying to board who had no pants (or underwear) on. Obese people losing their $hit because they were just told they're going to have to buy 2 seats. Etc, etc, etc...........
You're absolutely right. I'm going to go pay for my own training and apply to get a taste of that "romance" you're touting. What was I thinking? I stand humbly corrected.

 

[727Capt]

If everyone only flew 83 hours and got 83 hours of credit, your analysis makes sense, but different airlines do it differently. I know that check airmen at Jet Blue can easily get 120 credit hours per month, UAL pilots used to get credit for lots of stuff that wasn't hard flying, and Fedex pilots really don't fly too much compared to passenger airlines, so they get pay credit and rigs.

From the folks I know that do it, it's possible to make more than $300k at Fedex (it's also possible at SWA according to rumor I don't know anyone that does it there), it's certainly reasonable to make $225k at SWA as a captain and at UAL now, the captain pay is now around the $130k to $150k, same as Jet Blue.

Also SWA has that weird trips for pay system that I get bored hearing the explanation to, so I don't know much about it. As far as I can tell, it's a cross between houly pay and mileage pay and too complicated for me to care too much about.

Oh, and Falcon guy, night freight sucks. Day freight sucks. You're on the freight ramp using porta-potties when the passenger guys are drinking Starbucks and picking up a copy of Maxim.


.

Obviously RADARLOVE is on the outside looking in and is holding a big bag full of clueless. Hope the glass doesn't get diry with his face pressing up against it looking in!

 

[JethroF15]

Pilot on the rise: You're oversimplifying. You can't compare apples to oranges, the question is "how many credit hours" does a pilot get, not "what is the pay rate per hour".

If everyone only flew 83 hours and got 83 hours of credit, your analysis makes sense, but different airlines do it differently. I know that check airmen at Jet Blue can easily get 120 credit hours per month, UAL pilots used to get credit for lots of stuff that wasn't hard flying, and Fedex pilots really don't fly too much compared to passenger airlines, so they get pay credit and rigs.

From the folks I know that do it, it's possible to make more than $300k at Fedex (it's also possible at SWA according to rumor I don't know anyone that does it there), it's certainly reasonable to make $225k at SWA as a captain and at UAL now, the captain pay is now around the $130k to $150k, same as Jet Blue.

Also SWA has that weird trips for pay system that I get bored hearing the explanation to, so I don't know much about it. As far as I can tell, it's a cross between houly pay and mileage pay and too complicated for me to care too much about.

Oh, and Falcon guy, night freight sucks. Day freight sucks. You're on the freight ramp using porta-potties when the passenger guys are drinking Starbucks and picking up a copy of Maxim.

The lifestyles are totally different. Flying freight means sitting around a lot, frieght ramps, K-loaders and other un-romantic stuff. Yes, you get to see International stuff, but one of the most pathetic sights I've seen was in Paris at an art museum.

Three Fedex guys were wandering through the museum, "chatting" with each other about the art. They were stiff and uncomfortable and stuck together to see the sights, just like they had probably just been stuck together for ten hours flying across the Atlantic. If that's the romantic life of an international pilot (hanging out with your crew of uptight guys who complain about the cost of admission to a museum) then you probably made the right choice.

You know not of what you speak. Hate to say it but you are putting out a lot of misinformation concerning life at FedEx. Better to stick to what you DO know and leave the FedEx answers to the guys who DO know. Or you could continue to pass along incorrect information and continue to show that big chip on your shoulder. I actually don't know if you do have a chip on your shoulder but your posts sure make it appear that you do.

 

[K-Mart]

Can you explain what you mean when you say China decides to nationalize its business? Do you mean they will only allow Chinese planes and pilots to fly into and out of their country? I guess I can understand if you say China will nationalize its business and have Chinese pilots fly point to point within China, but thats pretty much what all countries (including the US) do now. Its called cabotage. As far as international is concerned, how many countries do you think would sit back and say "I guess its ok that we can no longer fly our planes to your country, but you can fly your planes to ours." No country would ever agree to that.

Besides, its pretty much a non-issue since China can't even find enough of its own people to fly their airplanes. They are having to hire guys from other countries to come in at three times the Chinese pilot's normal salary just to fly their airplanes. In addition, the forecast is for them to have an even greater shortage of pilots in the future. How can you "nationalize" your airline if you can't even find the warm bodies to fill the cockpit seats?

Easier than you think. It's all about goods going from A to B. Buyer from supplier. Middle man always can get cut out. Seriously, the supplier don't care and the buyer will want it cheapest. In terms of our country putting a stop to it? Yeah right, I highly doubt Nike, Dell, etc... cares how the product gets here and that is the bottom line. A lot more pull with them and our politicians than FedEx. I'm not stirrring the pot and I am certainly not smart enough to think of it.

 

[SWA/FO]

Have you seen the "romance" on the A&E show "Airline"? Now that is romantic. A guy trying to board that smelled so bad, the gate agent had to kick him off the plane. A bum trying to board who had no pants (or underwear) on. Obese people losing their $hit because they were just told they're going to have to buy 2 seats. Etc, etc, etc...........
You're absolutely right. I'm going to go pay for my own training and apply to get a taste of that "romance" you're touting. What was I thinking? I stand humbly corrected.

What about the a$$ that packs his HAZMAT in a package and doesn't fess up to it. Its loaded onto a Fed Ex bird, said bird catches on fire, crew lucky to be alive. Even after bouncing the airplane and flipping onto its back trying to land. That sound like more of a hazard to me then some stinky guy.

 

[mule]

What about the a$$ that packs his HAZMAT in a package and doesn't fess up to it. Its loaded onto a Fed Ex bird, said bird catches on fire, crew lucky to be alive. Even after bouncing the airplane and flipping onto its back trying to land. That sound like more of a hazard to me then some stinky guy.

Or how about another "a$$" that didn't pack some oxygen canisters correctly and killed 100's of people....stuff happens everywhere.

 

[Purpled]

Wow, it's getting ugly...and fast.

KMART, Our 'buyers' or customers don't want it cheapest, they want it when we say they are going to get it. Our crew force, like many, is very dedicated to the mission and the results show it. Whenever we try to out-source or wet-lease we end up with the same result. They are not as reliable a supplier as the FedEx in-house system. Stuff doesn't get there, planeloads of horses arrive dead(they were alive at the beginning of the flight), planes go down and the outsourced company doesn't fix them in timely manner, etc.
The end result has been the customers wanting their FedEx packages loaded onto FedEx planes, flown by FedEx pilots. Until our business changes from reliability to cheapest path, even our execs know that they can't just hire a bunch of chinese pilots to do this...they hate that they know that, but they know it. Both supply and demand curves in overnight cargo are inelastic, therefore the supply must always be greater than demand, or you go tits-up.

 

[ptarmigan]

Easier than you think. It's all about goods going from A to B. Buyer from supplier. Middle man always can get cut out. Seriously, the supplier don't care and the buyer will want it cheapest. In terms of our country putting a stop to it? Yeah right, I highly doubt Nike, Dell, etc... cares how the product gets here and that is the bottom line. A lot more pull with them and our politicians than FedEx. I'm not stirrring the pot and I am certainly not smart enough to think of it.

K Mart, have you ever looked into what companies carry political clout in this country? http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.asp?order=A

 

[fartknocker]

Which one would you pick if you were hired at both today?

A guy in my new hire class was at SWA for about 2 years, and came to FedEx. I don't know all the circumstances, but that was his choice.

 

[Rook]

Loosen up guys. Go watch The Aristocrats and have a laugh.

 

[170B]

Have you seen the "romance" on the A&E show "Airline"? Now that is romantic. A guy trying to board that smelled so bad, the gate agent had to kick him off the plane. A bum trying to board who had no pants (or underwear) on. Obese people losing their $hit because they were just told they're going to have to buy 2 seats. Etc, etc, etc...........
You're absolutely right. I'm going to go pay for my own training and apply to get a taste of that "romance" you're touting. What was I thinking? I stand humbly corrected.

Malter 1...You are obviously wise beyond your years. Surely the results of years of experience flying the line at Fed Ex. You have "been there...done that!" You da man!

 

[Malter1]

Malter 1...You are obviously wise beyond your years. Surely the results of years of experience flying the line at Fed Ex. You have "been there...done that!" You da man!

You funny! I kid because I care.....

No, actually it is the result of months on the couch watching TV!

I thought you were just a "lurker" anyway? Welcome aboard. I expect more fight out of you Mister......

 

[active_herk]

Easier than you think. It's all about goods going from A to B. Buyer from supplier. Middle man always can get cut out. Seriously, the supplier don't care and the buyer will want it cheapest. In terms of our country putting a stop to it? Yeah right, I highly doubt Nike, Dell, etc... cares how the product gets here and that is the bottom line. A lot more pull with them and our politicians than FedEx. I'm not stirrring the pot and I am certainly not smart enough to think of it.

K-Mart, I think one of us is missing the point. You started talking about a country nationalizing its business. What does that have to do with a supplier and buyer deciding whom to use to ship? I agree that a supplier and buyer can choose what shipping service they want to use. That is what capitalism is all about. When a country decides to "nationalize" its business, I was taking it to mean that the country would take control of the business, and not allow other shippers to service their goods. This might be called protectionism. While it is not disallowed, if one country starts using a form of protectionism, then other countries will take whatever means necessary to counteract that stance; many times in the forms of tariffs or controls on goods. What I was trying to suggest is that a country can't unilaterally decide to force those types of controls without expecting some sort of retaliation, possibly severe. The country in question would be “shooting itself in the foot”.

Now for instance, lets say China did decide to “nationalize” their business, and they were going to ship stuff over here exclusively on their planes with their pilots. Once it gets to the US, is China also going to be able to dictate that “their” trucks and “their” truck drivers will take it from the dock to the distribution center and then on to the final customer? Or maybe they are going to send it in the US over “their” rail system. I’m sure they have “their” freight forwarder in place to get all the necessary red tape items taken care of to get the product released into the US. If not, you might be surprised to find out that the “cheap” air shipping costs get overridden by the many additional costs of getting the product to the consumer. The type of airfreight in this instance is called Airport to Airport, and there are actually quite a few companies that do it rather cheaply already. I’m not sure how much of this FedEx does, but I am sure it is not the vast percentage of our business. We focus on getting the product all the way to the consumer, so in effect WE bypass the middleman, which in turn saves money and enhances reliability.

You also said that Nike and Dell don’t care how their product gets here, and you may have a point, but I can guarantee they care deeply in the manner in which it arrives. By that I mean they want it where they want it and when they want it. Believe it or not, to these huge multinational corporations timing is everything in their supply chain management. Dell doesn’t have just one factory making their computers from scratch. They have literally dozens of suppliers all over the world moving parts everywhere they need to be, and on a schedule that is crucial to their business model. They can try shipping it the “cheap way” a few times, but if the stuff doesn’t make it in time, and production lines have to be shut down, do you really think they care that they saved a buck or two on shipping?

As a side note, just recently, I had one of our charter reps jumpseat on one of our aircraft, and I started talking with him regarding our charter operations. As many of the FedEx guys know, we subcontract out a great amount of our charter flying. According to the charter rep, if FedEx (management) had its way, ALL of our charter flying would be done exclusively on FedEx aircraft with FedEx pilots. They would do this because the company gets greater reliability when we do the flying, and at a greater value. So why don’t we? Because we are woefully understaffed in the airplanes and aircrews we need to fly our core business freight and charter work on top of that. Hopefully we are working towards rectifying that situation.

Finally, even if China (or however else) could do it better and cheaper, you never addressed where they are going to get all these pilots to fly all this freight so cheaply. Like I said before, China has a difficult pilot shortage problem now, and this problem is forecast to get much worse.

So to wrap up, I don’t think our company or any company can ever “rest on their laurels”. I also don’t pretend to assume that we can never be beaten out down the road, but I do think it would be extremely unlikely that a country could or even would “nationalize” it’s business as it appeared you suggested in your initial post. Then again, maybe its me who is missing the point.

 

[psysicx]

On the Intl side of Fedex isn't the take off times in the afternoon chasing the sun down? And do they have domestic schedules that end at 10 or 11 at night?

 

[Purpled]

On the Intl side of Fedex isn't the take off times in the afternoon chasing the sun down? And do they have domestic schedules that end at 10 or 11 at night?

I've seen both. But, as alluded to before, we've pretty much got it all. From the completely painful to the unbelievably awesome.

The best part is that what is ugly to you is desired by some, for one reason or another. Strange, but it works out well. You get stuff you consider to be good long before you think you should. Rhyme not intended. After about 6 months on the line, I never would have had to fly 'overnight' again...as long as I was ok with going to chitty cities or doing out and backs(sleeping in MEM everynight). Imagine how cool that would be if you lived there.

I am curious, though. Your two examples above, do you consider them good or bad?