F D X v. S W A

[Purpled]

If you are single, SWA all the way!!!! Married with kids, ( like me ) you have a decsion to make.

Ok, I'll bite. What gives here? I'm sure you can't be referring to the Stews.

 

[Brian a300]

You'll never know if you made the right decision until you turn 60 and retire, but once you make your decision now stick with it and don't look back. I think there are alot of great guys at both companies, follow the stability and growth, FEDEX is a good choice..

 

[JethroF15]

My vote is.... FedEx.:beer:

 

[firstthird]

A thought on the pax/freight asusmptions. It seems that the accepted wisdom is that UPS/Fedex have it made forever and a day. Very likely. But, consider this scenario. There are other smart businessmen in the world besides Fred Smith and the UPS trucking guys. I suspect that someday a third or fourth company will make a real go at the cargo side of flying. DHL is huge everywhere but North America (or so I'm told) and made/is making an attempt to compete here. UPS/Fedex have been riding a comparative gravy train. A Soviet Union/USA kind of thing, watching each other, tit for tat (you buy Kinko's, I'll buy Mail Boxes Etc. looks like Fedex got the best of that deal). If and when a third or fourth competitor enters the market with a junior workforce, new planes, no DB pension (you know like so many of the LCCs, one of which I work for) it may cause a seismic shift in the cargo industry. As in, contracts up for renegotiation, etc.

A positive about SWA (besides being a place that I can see myself still flying in 20+ years and being happy about it), we've survived the cutthroat pax competition so far. The fight is never over and we've got our eye on costs. But competing against and surviving amongst 20+ carriers, all trying to make money, undercut the other guy, etc. That means we are lean and a survivor. Not saying that Fedex or UPS are not lean, just that it really hasn't been proven in the Darwinian contest that is the pax airlines. As long as Fedex and UPS have similar costs and stay more reliable/cheaper than US postal, they have a good thing.

The big problem with my pet theory is that cargo entails a HUGE up front cost to get the storefronts, trucks, drivers, space at 200+ airports. Whereas pax carriers can enter the market with 3 planes and 2 airports. Can't do that in cargo so it will take a Richard Branson, the 'Easy' guy, or a serious effort by DHL to enter the market. But, there is money to be made and that means people are looking at ways to make it.

Short version. Cargo has a good thing with the Fedex/UPS duality that may not last forever. SWA has survived and thrived in one of the most capital killing industries ever invented by man (knock on wood, so far).

 

[Echopapa]

Take the first open training slot and don't look back.

 

[scoreboard]

what he said.

 

[psysicx]

Roll the dice.

 

[HoursHore]

In the immortal words of that modern day sage Cosmo Karamer:

KRAMER: Now what does the little man inside you say? See you gotta listen to the little man.

Also, what ever allows the easiest commute.

 

[jtmpilot]

,, you know whats gonna make you happy, " if you enjoy your job youll never work a day in your life"
famous quote by my grandfather.

When is the real estate market in NOVA gonna pick up???????

PS im using my friends screenname to post this>>>>>>

 

[K-Mart]

Dude, if you have to ask, don't come to SWA. Not slamming just an observation. My best buds love Fedex, if you don't like 7 legs in a day, go for Fred. If you like working with people, go SWA.

Best advice out there. People are fun and it really isn't that bad as a pilot dealing with them. A lot better than what the Flight Attendants have to deal with.

Like fuel costs and the pax business, frieght can and will have its problems down the line. One of them is the international cargo side. If a country, say China, decides to nationalize it's business, then guess what? There goes the cargo contract. Short of being a truck driver for UPS, cargo may not be a safe bet. Just my thoughts. Good luck.

 

[OK3]

Another consideration in terms of QOL is the average trip length at each company. At SWA we do a lot of three day trips with a smaller percentage of four days and some two days and turns. I get the impression that at FDX the trips tend to be longer. If you have a wife and kids I think shorter trips are a little easier on the family. More short trips a month make for a harder commuter life, but if you live in a base life is really good.

 

[jtmpilot]

for married people::2 nights away keeps the divorce attorney away........ 7 days away youll have he__ __ !! to pay

 

[PAPA FOX!]

No one has mentioned this

One thing that was not mentioned is the possibility of cargo drones a few decades from now. I know I sound really foolish bringing this up, but this should be something on one's radar screen long before it could happen.

If I were a visionary and a union leader for UPS or FDX, I'd treat it like cancer. I would address the issue in its infancy and remove the threat long before it spread and had the potential to kill me!

I don't think for the Pax carriers this should be a concern, but for freight it does cross my mind.


I hope I am WRONG about all of this, but one must have foresight and vision to stop this from happening!! NOW is the time to do that, not when it is knocking on the door. As they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!!

To the origional poster, I'd go with FDX but I think you won't go wrong by any means at SWA. If I lived in base however, I'd go with SWA.


Good luck with whatever choice you make!

 

[active_herk]

If a country, say China, decides to nationalize it's business, then guess what? There goes the cargo contract. Short of being a truck driver for UPS, cargo may not be a safe bet. Just my thoughts. Good luck.

Can you explain what you mean when you say China decides to nationalize its business? Do you mean they will only allow Chinese planes and pilots to fly into and out of their country? I guess I can understand if you say China will nationalize its business and have Chinese pilots fly point to point within China, but thats pretty much what all countries (including the US) do now. Its called cabotage. As far as international is concerned, how many countries do you think would sit back and say "I guess its ok that we can no longer fly our planes to your country, but you can fly your planes to ours." No country would ever agree to that.

Besides, its pretty much a non-issue since China can't even find enough of its own people to fly their airplanes. They are having to hire guys from other countries to come in at three times the Chinese pilot's normal salary just to fly their airplanes. In addition, the forecast is for them to have an even greater shortage of pilots in the future. How can you "nationalize" your airline if you can't even find the warm bodies to fill the cockpit seats?

 

[johnsonrod]

If you don't mind flying the same aircraft for the rest of your career to many of the same cities over and over again (albeit during the day and with attractive shorts-wearing stews), choose Southwest.

 

[Purpled]

How have we gotten this far without someone suggesting that SWA is going to start flying cargo and put FDX out of business. Heck, someone already suggested drones, this is less crazy than that.

Please, Herb, no, please!

 

[TexaSWA]

Ok, I'll bite. What gives here? I'm sure you can't be referring to the Stews.

You see there are these things called "room parties", where crews go after the bar closes, drink "herb's booze", and...

... use your imagination.


... now double the rauciousness that you were imagining.


Kid Rock ain't seen nothing like a weekend PM at the Main Sail.

 

[firstthird]

Which is why Tampa will be the next base, need to kill the good parties. Before my time but I heard that BWI, MDW, and MCO were all great overnights before they became bases. The overnight party destroying method rules out BNA and LAS as future bases, MCI seems to have gotten more fun at the new hotel.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Short version. Cargo has a good thing with the Fedex/UPS duality that may not last forever. SWA has survived and thrived in one of the most capital killing industries ever invented by man (knock on wood, so far).

Excellent point. Which one were you recommending again???

 

[seefive]

Had this problem in 2002. Chose FedEx and am happy with it. I'll be gone 9 days this month. The nights aren't easy for me since i'm not a good day sleeper but i choose nights because it's more efficient for pay and more days off. There are so many niches at FedEx that there are many lines that will be great for almost anyone with a little seniority. Best commuting job by a long shot. Great pay, great retirement. Great vacation. No people contact...... Good or bad.
There are some terrific, long layovers at FedEx. Few, short flights are nice, but if they are in the middle of the night, they can still be tough. The bottom line is it's just a job!.....I do enjoy it though. For me, the QOL is great considering what's important to me which is time off. I think i'd have had a good time at Southwest too. Best of luck.

 

[727Capt]

O.K. I'll come clean...I left SWA after a very short tour and went to FDX. Like you I was in both hiring pools at the same time and SWA came in with the first class date. 6 Months later FDX called.

Had I been with SW longer, say over a year or two I probably would not have left. Great Company, super people. Like some have eluded to your 'situation' should dictate where you go. Look at the domiciles because not commuting makes either job a whole lot easier. SW offers more choices here. What type of flying do you want to do? I didn't want to spend 30 more years in a 737...not even the 700's/900's. As far as trying to categorize the type of flying you will have at FedEx you can pretty well have your pick. Sorry but some of the previous threads regarding "mostly night flying" is inaccurate, and yes that's due primarily to the postal flying. We have a day time sort that occurs at all of our hubs that has us flying close to 50% of all flights during the day time. This contract was just renewed with the Post Office for another 7 years. Ya, I know I can hear you typing now..but what if the contract goes away...blah , blah, blah what if, what if. Nobody has a crystal ball and who the hell knows whats going to happen tomorrow never mind 10 or 15 years from now. Look at the history of the industry on both sides. Which one has an established record of profits and continued growth. How many pax airlines have gone away? how many cargo? The airline industry has been the only industry in the U.S. that is still in operation, to post more in revenue losses than overall gains. I know SW has been a shining star within that group and I hope they can continue to perform that way for a long time to come. But the profit and loss statements aren' t even close.

If you have the time try to get the bid packs from both airlines and look at the trips. Don't talk to any friends at either airline unless they can tell you about the 'job' and not try to convince you why their Company is better. When we answer a question like that from our buds we are usually trying to justify in our own minds why we are in the 'best place '.

As far a the single v. married thing. It may have an impact if you can STAY SINGLE at SWA. Good Luck...absolutely, hands down SWA the winner, but the FA isn't funding my retirement, nor do I want to fund hers.

I can go on and on over the details but my situation is not yours. For myself it was a great decision but I'm sure I would have had a great time had I stayed at SWA. Like the one guy said you wont know for sure until retirement. Either way I think both companies will definitely get you there which is what its all about! Good Luck and have fun.

 

[Purpled]

I think it's worth pointing out that your happiness is probably more dependent on you, not which company you pick. If you're generally a happy person, you'll be happy at either. If you're generally a complainer, then you'll complain at either. Just keep thinking that the glass is half full and it will be. I don't think either will be going away anytime soon.

 

[GuppyWN]

Not trying to convice you but I'll toss in that we have 5000 pilots on the property with aspirations for 9000 by 2012.

I "like" my job. I love the company. When the sh!t hits the fan this joint's got your back and they show it time and again. I can't tell you how many stories I've heard from personal injury to family tragedy and the company calls, sends gifts and flowers letting you know that they're here for you.

Bottom line. There will always be times when you wonder why you didn't pick the other option. I'd let this decision be made between you and your wife - not a bunch of boneheads like us.

 

[firstthird]

Originally Posted by FlyBoeingJets

Excellent point. Which one were you recommending again???

I actually had another paragraph originally with my 2 cents but decided it wasn't really relevant. I'm at SWA and enjoy it. Have a bunch of friends at Fedex but once I got in the pool at SWA I decided not to continue pursuing Fedex, and that was with a 2+ year pool wait at SWA. I think the posters with advice about the commute probably are closest to the mark. I suspect that trying to 'pick a winner' for 30 years from now may be an exercise in futility. I am keeping my Fedex application current though with an update a year even though I hope never to have to change the availability date to 'now' instead of some random date in the future. (I paid my 50 bucks, and admit to being a little superstitious. As in, once I say screw it I'm never going to another airline, fate may throw me a curve)

We've had a few guys in my squadron get hired by both and they went to Fedex. I think some guys see the money and jump for it, which is hard to fault. Money/time off = quality of life. I do think it is a little silly to make career/life long decisions based on the most current contract like so many guys seemed to do back in the late 90's. 'Well my career earnings at airline X will be 8 million but at airline Y they will only be 6.5 million.' There are so many assumptions that those kind of numbers can be the next best thing to meaningless. Including the ones that guys are doing now comparing SWA and Fedex. What if SWA gets 787s and starts paying 300+ a year to do international on a second plane type? What if the Fedex A/B plans go away as a result of the entire Fortune 500 ditching their plans? Where are your career earnings now?

Lots of things to ponder. Great to have the choice but tough too, those of us who only ever got one interview are secure in the knowledge we made the right choice, hobbesian though it may have been. My high school physics teacher had a poster on his wall that said, "A man with one watch always knows what time it is, a man with two watches is never sure." I only had one airline interview me so it is the right one. People that have to choose between two have a tougher row to hoe.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Good perspective, firstthird.

I personally think there there is no "right" answer here. Just innumerable reasons why one is better than the other.

Kinda like who's going to win the superbowl, God or the ('86) Bears?

Full size Ditka or mini-Ditka?

Full size Ditka.

I say God, score 60-58.

 

[ExAF]

Swa

SWA...but then again, I am behind you in the purple pool.

 

[Juvat]

If you're asking that question, then one of 2 things apply to you: 1.) You already know which one you're going to take and you just made this post to gloat. OR 2.) You really didn't do your research prior to figure out which one is the better fit.

In either case, if you're that wishy-washy, go to Southwest. Make room for my buds who know what they want to do with their lives and have had the singular goal of getting hired at FedEx for years.

Dick.

 

[radarlove]

O.K. I'll come clean...I left SWA after a very short tour and went to FDX. Like you I was in both hiring pools at the same time and SWA came in with the first class date. 6 Months later FDX called.

Wow. That was stupid. I hope you live in Memphis.

 

[Purpled]

Wow. That was stupid. I hope you live in Memphis.

Please tell us why this was stupid.

 

[TexaSWA]

If "boxes dont bitch" or "not dealing with pax" is in your pro column for FedEx, you do not belong here.

To each their own, but I cant help but wonder what some passenger did to Megadeth to cause her disdain for passengers. All I have done in three years is stand there and look stupid. The FAs and customer service sups take care of the rare pax incidents. Ive never even been able to make it out of the cockpit quick enough after the landing to see the outcome.