Expressjet. No limit to sick days

[SLUF4]

So they make you go to the ERC if you file an ASAP there? I've filled out several and never been asked to go. Also ASAP is not mandatory, so how can they force you to even fill one out if you call fatigue? I like the idea..just not sure how it's implemented.

 

[rjacobs]

On the fatigue issue; as it was stated it falls under ASAP, now guys will be asked to come to an ERC meeting.

So they make you go to the ERC if you file an ASAP there? I've filled out several and never been asked to go. Also ASAP is not mandatory, so how can they force you to even fill one out if you call fatigue? I like the idea..just not sure how it's implemented.

Not everybody gets called into an ERC meeting for a fatigue ASAP.

If you dont fill out the ASAP for fatigue, you are excluded from the program and are then subject to the CPO and any punishment that they deem necessary.

The sick calls deal is not in the contract or any union document, its part of the companies "attendance and reliability" program. It was changed last year some time. Ive used it twice and its a pretty decent program change, although I dont think we should have to do anything.

 

[SLUF4]

Well that makes more sense

 

[DGdaPilot]

If you dont fill out the ASAP for fatigue, you are excluded from the program and are then subject to the CPO and any punishment that they deem necessary.

How can they punish you for calling fatigued? I'm pretty sure that's completely protected by the FAA.

 

[GuppyWN]

If you call in sick just bring a DR's note when you return and you will be good to go.

You have to have a note? What are you - in Kindergarten? I'm not paying $100 for a doctors visit when I have a head cold.

Gup

 

[rjacobs]

How can they punish you for calling fatigued? I'm pretty sure that's completely protected by the FAA.

Putting fatigue in ASAP means that you have to comply with all the same rules as if you had to file an ASAP for an altitude deviation. If you dont file the ASAP for the altitude deviation you are at the mercy of the FAA(if they choose to pursue it). If you dont file the ASAP for the fatigue call you are going to be excluded from ASAP protection and thus there is no way to tell if that fatigue call was legit or not(as it currently stands) and it is basically sent to the CPO(or somebody else, not sure who gets the ones that are excluded).

 

[SLUF4]

I just don't get how these people in charge think they can determine if a fatigue call is legit or not. If I'm tired and feel unfit to fly I will call fatigue...it doesn't matter if I had a 3 day break from work or not-maybe something happened that caused me not to sleep the night before. Also, I noticed in June here at my company a lot of days blocked to nearly 8 hours and duty times up around 13 followed by 9-10 hour layovers. You have to expect fatigue calls with schedules like that.

 

[rjacobs]

I just don't get how these people in charge think they can determine if a fatigue call is legit or not. If I'm tired and feel unfit to fly I will call fatigue...it doesn't matter if I had a 3 day break from work or not-maybe something happened that caused me not to sleep the night before. Also, I noticed in June here at my company a lot of days blocked to nearly 8 hours and duty times up around 13 followed by 9-10 hour layovers. You have to expect fatigue calls with schedules like that.

There is much more to the process than just a few people sitting down and determining if you were actually fatigued.

 

[Baronman]

You have to have a note? What are you - in Kindergarten? I'm not paying $100 for a doctors visit when I have a head cold.

Gup

No....you can have 4 unquestioned sick calls a year. If you bring a dr's note, it doesn't count towards the 4.

 

[SLUF4]

Well enlighten me-do they have some sort of body exchange teleporter where they can get into my body and see how I feel?

 

[navigatro]

You have to have a note? What are you - in Kindergarten? I'm not paying $100 for a doctors visit when I have a head cold.

Gup

Don't you have insurance?

 

[rjacobs]

Well enlighten me-do they have some sort of body exchange teleporter where they can get into my body and see how I feel?

I dont want to go into any more detail on a public site about how our program is run. If you are an XJT pilot get in touch with me over on the pipe(same screen name) or look me up on the XJT ALPA site under the safety committee(again not hard to figure out who I am) and I will fill you in on the details of how the program works if you havent gotten to experience it yet(sounds like you havent or you arent an XJT pilot).

 

[SLUF4]

Not an XJT pilot, so sorry bout that. I'm not trying to grill you on the process. I'm just saying no matter what kind of evaluation you do you'll never know how someone else feels. Although someone may be flying a schedule that doesn't look fatiguing, they may have other things going on or just didn't sleep well in a loud hotel one night. Like I said-I think what XJT is doing is a step in the right direction. I was talking more about the grilling from a CP at other places.

 

[GuppyWN]

Don't you have insurance?

Yes I do but I also have a deductable.

The fact that you are treated like a child is what bothers me.

Gup

 

[rjacobs]

Not an XJT pilot, so sorry bout that. I'm not trying to grill you on the process. I'm just saying no matter what kind of evaluation you do you'll never know how someone else feels. Although someone may be flying a schedule that doesn't look fatiguing, they may have other things going on or just didn't sleep well in a loud hotel one night. Like I said-I think what XJT is doing is a step in the right direction. I was talking more about the grilling from a CP at other places.

All I will say is there is way more involved in the process than "a couple people in charge" sitting around discussing these things, everything is taken into account. Its a really good process and so far has been used very successfully and not to many have been excluded from ASAP.

 

[Baronman]

Yes I do but I also have a deductable.

The fact that you are treated like a child is what bothers me.

Gup

Explain....How am I treated like a child....I can call sick once, twice, again and again and not get a call....I bang out again, bring a note and there's still no problem. Or at any point along the road had I visited a Dr it wouldn't have counted.

You expect unlimited, unquestioned sick calls? Geez, I'm not even pro-management but I can see that there comes a point when they're going to call and see what's up.

 

[Whydoitry]

Explain....How am I treated like a child....I can call sick once, twice, again and again and not get a call....I bang out again, bring a note and there's still no problem. Or at any point along the road had I visited a Dr it wouldn't have counted.

You expect unlimited, unquestioned sick calls? Geez, I'm not even pro-management but I can see that there comes a point when they're going to call and see what's up.

I'm on your side but really, we shouldn't need a note. The note has made a bad policy better. Maybe on our next contract we can just change it to personal time like so many other industries. The company should account for that time to all be used every year. My wife gets 2 weeks vacation another 14days of PTO, personal time off, which is for sick time or whatever, and it does accumulate if not used. It comes down to accounting and XJT doesn't account for that time being used.

 

[Whydoitry]

Yes I do but I also have a deductable.

Gup

I would have thought WN had better health insurance.

 

[OCP]

What does the ASAP program have to do with fatigue? Unless it is totally different from what is at ASA. ASAP is for an unintentional violation of something.

 

[Whydoitry]

At XJT we use ASAP to find the root cause of problems with the operation as well as for those pesky violations. Eg, rampers opening cargo door while beacon is still on. So, fatigue calls get ASAPed so that the company can try to mitigate whatever is causing fatigue calls, brings issues to the attention of the company, ALPA, and the FAA.