ExpressJet New TA Payrates

[Neil2112]

Name one post-9/11 contract that has been signed that is better than this. Name one airline that is in section 6 negotiations that you think will do better. That's all I ask.

As someone already mentioned, you're talking about pay only. CHQ- $200.00 yr. uniform allowance, reembursment for our medicals, 3,5,6 % match on 401k, we don't get crew meals, ( BFD ), NO JR. MANNING!, 12 days off min for line holders 11 for reserve, we've had block or better for pay all along, so what exactly is your point a$$hole? We don't have 8 year rates for FO, because FO's should be in the left seat LONG before the 8th year!

No disrespect to anyone else that has commented on this issue whether you're from ASA, Comair, or even ExpressJet it's just this guy was talking some stupid sh*t.

 

[sf3boy]

"We don't have 8 year rates for FO, because FO's should be in the left seat LONG before the 8th year!" by Neil2112

Ask Mesaba or Eagle FO's how they feel about that comment. You had better hope that your airline keeps expanding, majors keep hiring and you never ever downsize. If any of those things don't happen, it might be nice to have a long scale for FO's when you get demoted to FO after your extrordinary 2 year upgrade.

 

[flap operator]

Sf3boy - you got that right!

To all the rest... I'm still waiting for explanation of how this TA is better than the Mesaba contract most of you all bad mouthed.


FO

 

[Neil2112]

"We don't have 8 year rates for FO, because FO's should be in the left seat LONG before the 8th year!" by Neil2112

Ask Mesaba or Eagle FO's how they feel about that comment. You had better hope that your airline keeps expanding, majors keep hiring and you never ever downsize. If any of those things don't happen, it might be nice to have a long scale for FO's when you get demoted to FO after your extrordinary 2 year upgrade.

on our next contract we'll worry about it then, it's not like Eagle or Mesaba didn't know what they were getting into at the time dude. We didn't need any more than 4 years because we new we wouldn't need it at this time tool.

 

[nimtz]

\You had better hope that your airline keeps expanding, majors keep hiring and you never ever downsize.

Don't know about the majors hiring, but when you're willing to fly 70-99 seats for little to nothing more then 50 seaters you probably can expect growth as the jobs at the majors suck away. How forward thinking of Bedford Management and the CHQ pilots! Look how cool the 170 looks!

 

[PadFull'oTrim]

For all the crying you ladies did, you sure didn't "raise the bar" much!!

Sign your contract and quit your crying!!


Pad.......

 

[Britpilot]

For all the crying you ladies did, you sure didn't "raise the bar" much!!

Sign your contract and quit your crying!!


Pad.......

ok..............

 

[d.fitz]

...but when you're willing to fly 70-99 seats for little to nothing more then 50 seaters you probably can expect growth as the jobs at the majors suck away. How forward thinking of Bedford Management and the CHQ pilots! Look how cool the 170 looks!

www.airlinepilotpay.com

~$4000 per year for the 170 more than the 145.... Look before you type.

 

[vectors2final]

I really wish people could be more open minded. Yeah its not the pay we want, but there's more stuff in there I think is ok. Its not ALL about the pay. I agree $21.50 for first year FO is lame, but everyone starves the first year. Its part of the gig. I believe in the quality of life. The reserve rules are better, uniform allowance, and not to mention the scope... Profit sharing is a weak concept, but I'm all about a few extra bucks in my pocket. Not everyone will be happy, but I think theres plenty to keep us going for another 5 or 6 years. Overall its a better contract. We could do a whole lot worse. Lets just get it signed and get on with our lives.

 

[Jetlink]

I really wish people could be more open minded. Yeah its not the pay we want, but there's more stuff in there I think is ok. Its not ALL about the pay. I agree $21.50 for first year FO is lame, but everyone starves the first year. Its part of the gig. I believe in the quality of life. The reserve rules are better, uniform allowance, and not to mention the scope... Profit sharing is a weak concept, but I'm all about a few extra bucks in my pocket. Not everyone will be happy, but I think theres plenty to keep us going for another 5 or 6 years. Overall its a better contract. We could do a whole lot worse. Lets just get it signed and get on with our lives.

Looking at posts such as this and the others that are trying to defend payrates such as these, well, all I can say is that the "dumbing down" of America has taken a significant hold on small jet pilots and small jet pilot wanna-be's. Perhaps we just have a larger percentage of dumb-asses in this line of work than I had originally thought.

We have a duty to ourselves (and more importantly our familiy members) first of all, but to all other pilots in this fukked up industry to raise something. Good strides have been made in what I have read, but the last time I checked, this was a profession and we let the hobbiests fly on the weekends.

Some interesting numbers to remember when you vote:
$108 Million Profit 2003 - ExpressJet
CEO Ream - Paid $696,000 (NOT including stock options)
almost 250 Aircraft providing exlcusive feed for CAL, over 1,000 departures daily to 4 countries (Canada, Mexico, USA, Bahamas).
2003 Financials: Gross Profit: $445,277/ Gross Revevue: $1,311,443 (numbers in thousands)
2004 TA provides: $19,350 first year FO pay, $ 33,606 5th year FO pay
5th Year Capt $ 58,023.
A CAL flight attendant typically stays a dollar or more AHEAD of XJT FO PILOTS on an hourly rate basis!! In addition, they make $1.95 per diem domestic, $2.50 Int'l per hour.
I am sorry, but Coke can open-uppers with bad attitudes handing out pillows should NEVER...EVER make more $$ than any pilot...EVER!
Does our food cost less than a flight attendants, or mainline pilots for that matter?? I think not.

Southwest Airlines
CEO James Parker made $707,056 (INCLUDING all options) in 2003.
Revenue of $5,937,000 and Gross Profit $1,900,000 (#s in 1000's again).
Almost 400 aircraft providing domestic service only.
SWA Flight Attendants make $2.15/hr per diem.

CHQ
CEO Bedford, 2003 - $688,000

Mesa
CEO Ornstein, 2003 - $882,000 + $229,000 in options (and he thanks the hard working pilots of Mesa Airlines for this by the way )

THE MONEY IS THERE, we just have to get it!!

Thanks to the NC for the strides in the other sections besides 3, however, hard W-2 numbers are what we need here, and we certainly cannot accept rates BELOW a contract of 3 years ago at an airline that makes over $100 million in profits a year - who is kidding who??

Our NC has "spoken" for me for the last 2 years, I however am going to vote NO and have you speak for me a little bit more. If the NMB won't release us for another 6, 12, 18 months...sobeit. I can wait.

Besides, as little as I try to (and do) fly, any retro check is going to be pretty pathetic at these rates!!

 

[minrest]

172 Driver wrote:

What I see is pretty mediocre, pay wise...
$5<ComairA
$2-3<Mesaba (Avro)
+/- $1 with SkyWest
$.42-1.00 >Chautauqua
$5 or more<Horizon (T-prop rates)
6 yr FO makes what a CMR FO makes just out of probation.

Someone tell me why or what is in this TA that makes it so expensive or valuable. What's in there that other regionals don't have that would be worth $5000+ per year in pay? If there is something worth that much, ask yourselves why the company didn't just put it in the rates.

I'm not saying it's a bad TA. I'm not telling anyone how to vote. I just have a problem with this thing being called "the most expensive" in the industry. If it is, why hide the money, why make it intangible or difficult to measure? Just give it to me in my hourly rate, ty.


Yes, the UNION and Company could have shifted a lot of these gains as well as current provision into pay rates. We could have bargained down to industry standard vacation, such as Mesaba, Chautauqua, and Comair and easily have bumped our pay rates up another 4%. We could have said no to the improved Reserve rules and to the our improved FBO rules and maybe gained another 2%. There are many more examples of things we could have bargained away for higher pay rates. As a pilot with Express Jet, I am glad that we did not take that position. I would rather have the option of more days off and better quality of life or making more money. If we simply abandoned these "quality of life" gains, yes our hourly rates would be more, but we wouldn't be able to trade that additional pay down in exchange for time at home, or travelling, or whatever we want to do. Under this agreement, we can make industry leading annual earnings if wenchoose or we can enjoy more time off; at least we have a choice.

As for the payrates quoted above. Without reviewing all the aspect of each contract, comparing payrates are a moot point. I will say this however, a Mesaba AVRO is comparable if not superior to an E-170. It's pay rate should not be compared to that of a E-145. Also, the turbo-prob you refer to as Horizon is a much larger airplane than the E-145, and probably a lot more challenging to fly. I am glad that the Horizon guys are be paid accordingly.

 

[nimtz]

www.airlinepilotpay.com

~$4000 per year for the 170 more than the 145.... Look before you type.

It is a three dollar differential for captains with no additional pay for FO's. In other words same pay increase as for Mesa. Don't know how you got 4000, but I took a few 170 captain pay rates multipied by 75 and 12 and got 2700/year as compared to 145. More like 3K if you use 85 hours. Don't know how much you work, but I doubt you have many lines +90. That isn't a hill of beans compared to the UAL 737 pay you're replacing with that thing. I don't even think 4K is in my opinon. See Comair, ASA, and Horizon if you wanna see even remotely adequate.

Again this is only for a captain with the FO frozen out on the 145. Wait I know, 'he shouldn't care cause he will upgrade soon anyways.' The 90 seat pay rates are even worse when you consider it is nearly double the size of a 145. Guess we have a different perspective of what a small narrowbody pilot should make. I'm sure you guys made JetBlue management happy the day they saw those rates for the 190.

 

[vectors2final]

For all the crying you ladies did, you sure didn't "raise the bar" much!!

Sign your contract and quit your crying!!


Pad.......

I'm with pad. The whining in this place makes me wanna hurl.