ExpressJet New TA Payrates

[DDpaysoff]

Red flag trips? Another managment perceptive technique. Much like time and a half at comair. It looks great on paper, but in the last year I have picked up 3 trips out of open time. It is only available during a hurricane or a blizzard. Chq, used a different tactic. Pay protection only if completion rate meets a certain target. Therefore, when a flight is cancelled your company is one flight closer to not having to pay protect you for that flight. These are built in securities for the company. That is why payrates are so important. They are basically the only thing guarenteed. Good luck to you guys.

 

[flap operator]

Interesting stuff... how much of this summary is new stuff? Flying horses... you think this TA is better than Mesaba only in terms of pay (within a few dollars) or other things as well? I can see several things that are clearly inferior to our contract at Mesaba. And alot of this stuff that if new, we had in our 1996 contract. So I'm not really sure what you're basing your comparison on.

Good luck guys. Just remember that if you vote it down it's an all or nothing thing. You may not necessarily get all the good stuff back in the second TA. Lots for you to think about now... and PLEASE for your sake, don't be so short sighted as to base your vote SOLELY on pay.

I won't sit back and throw stones from a glass house. You guys will get what you negotiate and vote in. I for one, won't be sitting on the side lines trying to trip you all if this doesn't turn out to be a Comair plus contract.

FO

 

[DDpaysoff]

Profit sharing is much like counting your chickens before they hatch. It's like a bonus. You get it if somebody else (that you don't control) does a good job. If they screw up, you get nothing no matter what you do.

Synonym = smoke and mirrors.

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

Preach the word, brotha.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

$21.50?!? Man

 

[Denizen]

"$21.50?!? Man"


Not like the BIG BIG Bucks you airnet guys are raking in.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

"Not like the BIG BIG Bucks you airnet guys are raking in."

Thank you!

 

[Prop Trash]

Name one post-9/11 contract that has been signed that is better than this. Name one airline that is in section 6 negotiations that you think will do better. That's all I ask.

 

[Rhoid]

Name one post-9/11 contract that has been signed that is better than this. Name one airline that is in section 6 negotiations that you think will do better. That's all I ask.

UPS and FedEx will surely do better.

 

[flap operator]

Prop trash - are you talking only pay? Because there are several things in Mesabas post 9/11 contract that are better than things in your TA. As I said, pay is within a few dollars... but some of the work rules fall short. So again... are you measuring ONLY PAY? if so... you don't see the big picture.



FO

 

[PCL_128]

Name one post-9/11 contract that has been signed that is better than this. Name one airline that is in section 6 negotiations that you think will do better. That's all I ask.

9/11 has nothing to do with your situation. The regionals were not adversely affected by 9/11. The majors have lots of problems to work out still, but the regionals never stopped making money. Express Jet is making money hand over fist and they should hand some of it over to the pilots that keep the airline going. You guys deserve much better than this TA. Don't let the problems the majors are having convince you that you can't get a good contract. You don't work for CAL, you work for Express Jet. Look at your own company's financial condition and determine if they can afford to pay FOs above the poverty wages that this TA offers. Think about it.

 

[KingAirer]

Where did you come from again?

 

[rattler]

Name one post-9/11 contract that has been signed that is better than this. Name one airline that is in section 6 negotiations that you think will do better. That's all I ask.

How about we stop talking about pre and post 9/11 contracts and start talking about pre and post X-Jet contracts. It's time to raise the bar.

 

[Prop Trash]

Posted by Rhoid
UPS and FedEx will surely do better.

Compare apples to apples here. ExpressJet, like every other "small-jet capacity provider" is only a charter company that bids on flying for major network carriers. You can barely consider any of our companies "airlines." We don't sell tickets, we don't market our product, we don't set our schedules or decide where we want to fly, we don't keep the money people pay to ride on our airplanes.

Posted by PCL_128
The regionals were not adversely affected by 9/11.

The network carriers were adversely affected by 9/11. They're hurting for cash, looking for cheaper ways to move people from A to B. They've placed pressure on the small jet carriers to lower thier costs so that the capacity could be purchased for less money. That trickles down to us. The legacy carriers are looking for the lowest bidder to do thier flying and as a result, the pressure is put on the managements of our companies to get the cheapest costs possible so they can competitively bid on the flying.

The XJT TA was negotiated in the worst time possible and it came out with gains in every single section except for moving expenses, which was changed to an industry standard provision. The working rules and other provisions allow for a significant amount of soft time and other add-pay opportunities to make it the most expensive contract ever negotiated in our segment of the industry.

I think our NC has done very well to present an acceptable TA given the state of the industry.

 

[nonstop]

Compare apples to apples here. ExpressJet, like every other "small-jet capacity provider" is only a charter company that bids on flying for major network carriers. You can barely consider any of our companies "airlines." We don't sell tickets, we don't market our product, we don't set our schedules or decide where we want to fly, we don't keep the money people pay to ride on our airplanes.

The network carriers were adversely affected by 9/11. They're hurting for cash, looking for cheaper ways to move people from A to B. They've placed pressure on the small jet carriers to lower thier costs so that the capacity could be purchased for less money. That trickles down to us. The legacy carriers are looking for the lowest bidder to do thier flying and as a result, the pressure is put on the managements of our companies to get the cheapest costs possible so they can competitively bid on the flying.

The XJT TA was negotiated in the worst time possible and it came out with gains in every single section except for moving expenses, which was changed to an industry standard provision. The working rules and other provisions allow for a significant amount of soft time and other add-pay opportunities to make it the most expensive contract ever negotiated in our segment of the industry.

I think our NC has done very well to present an acceptable TA given the state of the industry.

What an appropriate handle.

 

[TWAER]

To say that regionals were not affected by 9/11 is not true. Even though the impact was not as great, it still affected the whole industry. Many regionals took consessions from mainline to keep operating for that carrier. Anyway, good luck with your vote. Just remember, either way, you will take criticism.

 

[Captain X]

What an appropriate handle.

As is yours...with your nonstop bull$hit and drivel.

 

[172driver]

It may be labelled as the "most expensive" contract in history, but if I were evaluating it, I would want more guaranteed money (i.e. pay rates) rather than profit sharing, retro pay, red flag trips, etc.

If it is truly the most expensive contract in history, the company should have no problem shifting some of that expense from other sections of the contract into the pay rates, right? A dollar's a dollar.

Yes, other things are extremely important...duty limits (which are weak in this TA), rest rules (weak), segment pay (industry std.), rigs(none). These things are worth giving on the pay rates, IMO.

Profit sharing...if there's a profit and if they choose to show it on the books, it will be nice but no guarantees.

Retro pay...nice but not worth sacrificing long term pay, and they owe it to you anyway for stalling the negotiations while you worked for less.

Red flag trips...once in a blue moon you might have a shot at one, no money there.

What I see is pretty mediocre, pay wise...
$5<Comair
$2-3<Mesaba (Avro)
+/- $1 with SkyWest
$.42-1.00 >Chautauqua
$5 or more<Horizon (T-prop rates)
6 yr FO makes what a CMR FO makes just out of probation.

Someone tell me why or what is in this TA that makes it so expensive or valuable. What's in there that other regionals don't have that would be worth $5000+ per year in pay? If there is something worth that much, ask yourselves why the company didn't just put it in the rates.

I'm not saying it's a bad TA. I'm not telling anyone how to vote. I just have a problem with this thing being called "the most expensive" in the industry. If it is, why hide the money, why make it intangible or difficult to measure? Just give it to me in my hourly rate, ty.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

It may be labelled as the "most expensive" contract in history, but if I were evaluating it, I would want more guaranteed money (i.e. pay rates) rather than profit sharing, retro pay, red flag trips, etc.

If it is truly the most expensive contract in history, the company should have no problem shifting some of that expense from other sections of the contract into the pay rates, right? A dollar's a dollar.

Yes, other things are extremely important...duty limits (which are weak in this TA), rest rules (weak), segment pay (industry std.), rigs(none). These things are worth giving on the pay rates, IMO.

Profit sharing...if there's a profit and if they choose to show it on the books, it will be nice but no guarantees.

Retro pay...nice but not worth sacrificing long term pay, and they owe it to you anyway for stalling the negotiations while you worked for less.

Red flag trips...once in a blue moon you might have a shot at one, no money there.

What I see is pretty mediocre, pay wise...
$5<Comair
$2-3<Mesaba (Avro)
+/- $1 with SkyWest
$.42-1.00 >Chautauqua
$5 or more<Horizon (T-prop rates)
6 yr FO makes what a CMR FO makes just out of probation.

Someone tell me why or what is in this TA that makes it so expensive or valuable. What's in there that other regionals don't have that would be worth $5000+ per year in pay? If there is something worth that much, ask yourselves why the company didn't just put it in the rates.

I'm not saying it's a bad TA. I'm not telling anyone how to vote. I just have a problem with this thing being called "the most expensive" in the industry. If it is, why hide the money, why make it intangible or difficult to measure? Just give it to me in my hourly rate, ty.

Great Post. Well put. Dollar is a dollar. They can have there day off, retro check, and profit sharing. Show me the money!

VOTE NO. FOR GOD'S SAKE, VOTE NO..............................!

 

[Anaconda]

what's "customs pay"?

 

[XJTAv8r]

what's "customs pay"?

10 minutes of pay credit at the hub airports for clearing customs after an international flight.