ExpressJet New TA Payrates

[ATR-DRIVR]

Yes you are and yes they are.

 

[145FO]

Would someone translate these rates for Capt into what annual pay would be? I multiply by 75 hours X 12 months and what I get seems low... Am I figuring correctly? If I simply multiply by 1000 would that be fairly accurate?

Just multiply the hourly rate by 900 and that is the base pay for 1 year. Ex. 5th year captain $64.47 x 900 = $58,023 per year for base pay. Profit sharing has been around 8% and block or better supposedly would add another 2-4%. So if the stars are aligned properly a 5th year captain would only make $63,825-64,986.

edit: Profit sharing can be terminated at any time and then our pay rates go up by 3% in return.

 

[surplus1]

Profit sharing is much like counting your chickens before they hatch. It's like a bonus. You get it if somebody else (that you don't control) does a good job. If they screw up, you get nothing no matter what you do.

Synonym = smoke and mirrors.

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

 

[captjim]

Just a few bullet points of TA1:



You all have seen the pay rates.



Retirement:

401K


Years of service Company match

5 yrs or less 100% up to 4%

5 to 10yrs 100% 5%

10 +yrs 100% 6%



B fund:

5yrs or less 2.5% of annual income

5 to 10 yrs 4%

10 to 15yrs 5%

15 to 20yrs 5.5%

20 + yrs 6%



Other Points:



100% pay for deadheads, actual or block

$150 uniform allowance

CREW MEALS

leg by leg(good for between 2 to 4% pay)

Pay for home study

Red Flag trips paid at 150% pay

Customs pay

JR manned with less than 12 days off 150% pay and have day restored

Profit sharing (has been averaging 8% annual income) If profit sharing is terminated, pay increases 3%)

New hires get insurance in 3 months now

Long/Short call reserve

Reserve pilots will not have vacation days prorated

Voluntary training on day off is paid at 150%

 

[sweptback]

Just a few bullet points of TA1:

CREW MEALS

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this at your expense? How is it any more of a crew meal than, say, going to the McD's in the terminal between legs?

Don't get me wrong, though, crew meals would be something I'd like to have, especially since my longest break of the day is maybe 1:03 and it involves an aircraft swap (very common at ASA, unfortunately...)

Red Flag trips paid at 150% pay

Maybe this is just a coex thing, but what incentive does crew scheduling have to "red flag" a trip? If it was that urgent to get somebody to pick it up, wouldn't they just assign it to a reserve?

New hires get insurance in 3 months now

Yikes, I got insurance 30 days after my hire date at ASA. I'd hate to have to wait 3 months. What was it before?

Long/Short call reserve

Have details of this been posted? I'm curious since scheduling (especially reserve scheduling) seems to be the #1 issue in negotiations at ASA. Do you guys have ready reserve?

My uninformed impression is that this is a step up for you guys, but still below the bar set by Comair. The fact that you got a TA though should really help move things along at ASA, at least in theory. Especially since you guys started negotiating before us and have a TA faster...

 

[Whirlwind]

Interesting...

I could live comfortably on 5 year captain pay, but I'd be starving at the 1st year FO level... If the 2nd year FO pay was the starting pay, I think it would be a fair contract considering economic conditions.

My 2 cents...

 

[Buford T Justic]

Hey Jimbo You coming to town on Sat. for the road show ????

Just a few bullet points of TA1:



You all have seen the pay rates.



Retirement:

401K


Years of service Company match

5 yrs or less 100% up to 4%

5 to 10yrs 100% 5%

10 +yrs 100% 6%



B fund:

5yrs or less 2.5% of annual income

5 to 10 yrs 4%

10 to 15yrs 5%

15 to 20yrs 5.5%

20 + yrs 6%



Other Points:



100% pay for deadheads, actual or block

$150 uniform allowance

CREW MEALS

leg by leg(good for between 2 to 4% pay)

Pay for home study

Red Flag trips paid at 150% pay

Customs pay

JR manned with less than 12 days off 150% pay and have day restored

Profit sharing (has been averaging 8% annual income) If profit sharing is terminated, pay increases 3%)

New hires get insurance in 3 months now

Long/Short call reserve

Reserve pilots will not have vacation days prorated

Voluntary training on day off is paid at 150%

 

[DDpaysoff]

Your 4th year FO rates should be 2cd year rates, with increases in line. Capt. pay after 4 years 6$ an hour higher. I think they are trying to insult you guys with the 'profit sharing' cookie and this offer. Another managment's wet dream (See mesa, CHQ, Pinnacle). I wonder what kind of bonus they get if you sign this POS.

 

[av8tor4239]

COEX PILOTS:


Please remember you are NOT regional airline pilots anymore. Just because you have express after your name does not mean you have to have a crap contract. Example: Federal EXPRESS.

You guys are no longer OWNED by Continetal main line. You are your own Coast to Coast International airline. Remember too you are Double the size of ASA (who I work for), and our Fo's are making more money now (contract 98) than your new TA says for FO's.
It would be a shame if this is voted in with a 51%/49% vote. I feel strongly that you deserve and can achieve a better contract. Please talk to your fellow crew members with open ears and get different opinions dont be narrow minded, but KNOW THIS YOU CAN AND WILL GET A BETTER TA IF YOU HOLD OUT!

Former Coex pilot
E4484

 

[captjim]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this at your expense? How is it any more of a crew meal than, say, going to the McD's in the terminal between legs?

Don't get me wrong, though, crew meals would be something I'd like to have, especially since my longest break of the day is maybe 1:03 and it involves an aircraft swap (very common at ASA, unfortunately...)


Maybe this is just a coex thing, but what incentive does crew scheduling have to "red flag" a trip? If it was that urgent to get somebody to pick it up, wouldn't they just assign it to a reserve?


Yikes, I got insurance 30 days after my hire date at ASA. I'd hate to have to wait 3 months. What was it before?


Have details of this been posted? I'm curious since scheduling (especially reserve scheduling) seems to be the #1 issue in negotiations at ASA. Do you guys have ready reserve?

My uninformed impression is that this is a step up for you guys, but still below the bar set by Comair. The fact that you got a TA though should really help move things along at ASA, at least in theory. Especially since you guys started negotiating before us and have a TA faster...

Forgive me, haven't figured out how to use the quoting on this format.


Crew Meals - As far as the crew meals we will get them on on flights that have meals for pax's. I wish I knew the block times that meals are served, I think 1:20 block time during meal time. This is the same as CAL or mainline. There is also a provision that says we can delay a flight to get something to eat if there has been a series of flights that are short and there is no sit time in the pairing. As a side note, myself and others have been delaying flights to get food for years, it's just in the contract now.

Red Flag - Neal can answer this one better. I America West has this. It's a provision that would come into affect when reserve coverage drops below a certain point. It however doen't allow the company to understaff on reserves.

Insurence - 3 months without insurence is a long time, however 6 months is even longer.

Pay Rates - They speak for themselves

 

[DDpaysoff]

Red flag trips? Another managment perceptive technique. Much like time and a half at comair. It looks great on paper, but in the last year I have picked up 3 trips out of open time. It is only available during a hurricane or a blizzard. Chq, used a different tactic. Pay protection only if completion rate meets a certain target. Therefore, when a flight is cancelled your company is one flight closer to not having to pay protect you for that flight. These are built in securities for the company. That is why payrates are so important. They are basically the only thing guarenteed. Good luck to you guys.

 

[flap operator]

Interesting stuff... how much of this summary is new stuff? Flying horses... you think this TA is better than Mesaba only in terms of pay (within a few dollars) or other things as well? I can see several things that are clearly inferior to our contract at Mesaba. And alot of this stuff that if new, we had in our 1996 contract. So I'm not really sure what you're basing your comparison on.

Good luck guys. Just remember that if you vote it down it's an all or nothing thing. You may not necessarily get all the good stuff back in the second TA. Lots for you to think about now... and PLEASE for your sake, don't be so short sighted as to base your vote SOLELY on pay.

I won't sit back and throw stones from a glass house. You guys will get what you negotiate and vote in. I for one, won't be sitting on the side lines trying to trip you all if this doesn't turn out to be a Comair plus contract.

FO

 

[DDpaysoff]

Profit sharing is much like counting your chickens before they hatch. It's like a bonus. You get it if somebody else (that you don't control) does a good job. If they screw up, you get nothing no matter what you do.

Synonym = smoke and mirrors.

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

Preach the word, brotha.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

$21.50?!? Man

 

[Denizen]

"$21.50?!? Man"


Not like the BIG BIG Bucks you airnet guys are raking in.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

"Not like the BIG BIG Bucks you airnet guys are raking in."

Thank you!

 

[Prop Trash]

Name one post-9/11 contract that has been signed that is better than this. Name one airline that is in section 6 negotiations that you think will do better. That's all I ask.

 

[Rhoid]

Name one post-9/11 contract that has been signed that is better than this. Name one airline that is in section 6 negotiations that you think will do better. That's all I ask.

UPS and FedEx will surely do better.

 

[flap operator]

Prop trash - are you talking only pay? Because there are several things in Mesabas post 9/11 contract that are better than things in your TA. As I said, pay is within a few dollars... but some of the work rules fall short. So again... are you measuring ONLY PAY? if so... you don't see the big picture.



FO

 

[PCL_128]

Name one post-9/11 contract that has been signed that is better than this. Name one airline that is in section 6 negotiations that you think will do better. That's all I ask.

9/11 has nothing to do with your situation. The regionals were not adversely affected by 9/11. The majors have lots of problems to work out still, but the regionals never stopped making money. Express Jet is making money hand over fist and they should hand some of it over to the pilots that keep the airline going. You guys deserve much better than this TA. Don't let the problems the majors are having convince you that you can't get a good contract. You don't work for CAL, you work for Express Jet. Look at your own company's financial condition and determine if they can afford to pay FOs above the poverty wages that this TA offers. Think about it.

 

[KingAirer]

Where did you come from again?

 

[rattler]

Name one post-9/11 contract that has been signed that is better than this. Name one airline that is in section 6 negotiations that you think will do better. That's all I ask.

How about we stop talking about pre and post 9/11 contracts and start talking about pre and post X-Jet contracts. It's time to raise the bar.

 

[Prop Trash]

Posted by Rhoid
UPS and FedEx will surely do better.

Compare apples to apples here. ExpressJet, like every other "small-jet capacity provider" is only a charter company that bids on flying for major network carriers. You can barely consider any of our companies "airlines." We don't sell tickets, we don't market our product, we don't set our schedules or decide where we want to fly, we don't keep the money people pay to ride on our airplanes.

Posted by PCL_128
The regionals were not adversely affected by 9/11.

The network carriers were adversely affected by 9/11. They're hurting for cash, looking for cheaper ways to move people from A to B. They've placed pressure on the small jet carriers to lower thier costs so that the capacity could be purchased for less money. That trickles down to us. The legacy carriers are looking for the lowest bidder to do thier flying and as a result, the pressure is put on the managements of our companies to get the cheapest costs possible so they can competitively bid on the flying.

The XJT TA was negotiated in the worst time possible and it came out with gains in every single section except for moving expenses, which was changed to an industry standard provision. The working rules and other provisions allow for a significant amount of soft time and other add-pay opportunities to make it the most expensive contract ever negotiated in our segment of the industry.

I think our NC has done very well to present an acceptable TA given the state of the industry.

 

[nonstop]

Compare apples to apples here. ExpressJet, like every other "small-jet capacity provider" is only a charter company that bids on flying for major network carriers. You can barely consider any of our companies "airlines." We don't sell tickets, we don't market our product, we don't set our schedules or decide where we want to fly, we don't keep the money people pay to ride on our airplanes.

The network carriers were adversely affected by 9/11. They're hurting for cash, looking for cheaper ways to move people from A to B. They've placed pressure on the small jet carriers to lower thier costs so that the capacity could be purchased for less money. That trickles down to us. The legacy carriers are looking for the lowest bidder to do thier flying and as a result, the pressure is put on the managements of our companies to get the cheapest costs possible so they can competitively bid on the flying.

The XJT TA was negotiated in the worst time possible and it came out with gains in every single section except for moving expenses, which was changed to an industry standard provision. The working rules and other provisions allow for a significant amount of soft time and other add-pay opportunities to make it the most expensive contract ever negotiated in our segment of the industry.

I think our NC has done very well to present an acceptable TA given the state of the industry.

What an appropriate handle.

 

[TWAER]

To say that regionals were not affected by 9/11 is not true. Even though the impact was not as great, it still affected the whole industry. Many regionals took consessions from mainline to keep operating for that carrier. Anyway, good luck with your vote. Just remember, either way, you will take criticism.

 

[Captain X]

What an appropriate handle.

As is yours...with your nonstop bull$hit and drivel.

 

[172driver]

It may be labelled as the "most expensive" contract in history, but if I were evaluating it, I would want more guaranteed money (i.e. pay rates) rather than profit sharing, retro pay, red flag trips, etc.

If it is truly the most expensive contract in history, the company should have no problem shifting some of that expense from other sections of the contract into the pay rates, right? A dollar's a dollar.

Yes, other things are extremely important...duty limits (which are weak in this TA), rest rules (weak), segment pay (industry std.), rigs(none). These things are worth giving on the pay rates, IMO.

Profit sharing...if there's a profit and if they choose to show it on the books, it will be nice but no guarantees.

Retro pay...nice but not worth sacrificing long term pay, and they owe it to you anyway for stalling the negotiations while you worked for less.

Red flag trips...once in a blue moon you might have a shot at one, no money there.

What I see is pretty mediocre, pay wise...
$5<Comair
$2-3<Mesaba (Avro)
+/- $1 with SkyWest
$.42-1.00 >Chautauqua
$5 or more<Horizon (T-prop rates)
6 yr FO makes what a CMR FO makes just out of probation.

Someone tell me why or what is in this TA that makes it so expensive or valuable. What's in there that other regionals don't have that would be worth $5000+ per year in pay? If there is something worth that much, ask yourselves why the company didn't just put it in the rates.

I'm not saying it's a bad TA. I'm not telling anyone how to vote. I just have a problem with this thing being called "the most expensive" in the industry. If it is, why hide the money, why make it intangible or difficult to measure? Just give it to me in my hourly rate, ty.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

It may be labelled as the "most expensive" contract in history, but if I were evaluating it, I would want more guaranteed money (i.e. pay rates) rather than profit sharing, retro pay, red flag trips, etc.

If it is truly the most expensive contract in history, the company should have no problem shifting some of that expense from other sections of the contract into the pay rates, right? A dollar's a dollar.

Yes, other things are extremely important...duty limits (which are weak in this TA), rest rules (weak), segment pay (industry std.), rigs(none). These things are worth giving on the pay rates, IMO.

Profit sharing...if there's a profit and if they choose to show it on the books, it will be nice but no guarantees.

Retro pay...nice but not worth sacrificing long term pay, and they owe it to you anyway for stalling the negotiations while you worked for less.

Red flag trips...once in a blue moon you might have a shot at one, no money there.

What I see is pretty mediocre, pay wise...
$5<Comair
$2-3<Mesaba (Avro)
+/- $1 with SkyWest
$.42-1.00 >Chautauqua
$5 or more<Horizon (T-prop rates)
6 yr FO makes what a CMR FO makes just out of probation.

Someone tell me why or what is in this TA that makes it so expensive or valuable. What's in there that other regionals don't have that would be worth $5000+ per year in pay? If there is something worth that much, ask yourselves why the company didn't just put it in the rates.

I'm not saying it's a bad TA. I'm not telling anyone how to vote. I just have a problem with this thing being called "the most expensive" in the industry. If it is, why hide the money, why make it intangible or difficult to measure? Just give it to me in my hourly rate, ty.

Great Post. Well put. Dollar is a dollar. They can have there day off, retro check, and profit sharing. Show me the money!

VOTE NO. FOR GOD'S SAKE, VOTE NO..............................!

 

[Anaconda]

what's "customs pay"?

 

[XJTAv8r]

what's "customs pay"?

10 minutes of pay credit at the hub airports for clearing customs after an international flight.