Expressjet and Women Pilots

[Flyer1015]

I don't think I made myself clear.

The quote is what they say in the video.

The disparaging remarks were made in the forums (passenger forums like flyertalk) about woman pilots at XJT. I'd have to Google or AJ search for the comments, though, since I don't have anything off hand (It was over a year ago).

 

[LJDRVR]

Besides, a red flag would go off in my mind if a 3000 hour pilot applied to ExpressJet. I would wonder what is holding them back than doing better than a regional airline. I probably wouldn't interview them either.

What's holding them back is $56 a barell oil, poor airline management, thousands of aplicants with much more flight time, scads more type ratings, and more boxes checked off experience wise.

Good thing for me you're a line pilot and not an interviewer. It's easy to come on here and slam these trogs for their infantile attiudes towards an issue over which they have no control and is largely imaginary. What you might want to do though English, is examine your own emotional baggage that you bring to the situation.

Each aviator has their own reasons for making their individual choices regarding their career. Fortunately, the folks that do the hiring at XJT are clever enough to look at the person's real motives and make a decision on whether they're an appropriate fit, instead of fixating on some arbitrary ideal of what-demographic-should-be-working-here. PS- I wasn't the only one we hired either.

Now, to you youngsters who want to whine about how somebody else got the job you think you deserve, all I can say is grow up. You want to be an HR specialist? Fine. Go do it. If you want to be a pilot, worry about yourself.

"I'm not getting called for an interview because they want to hire low-time women instead and that's not fair."

This is basically what you guys believe, isn't it? Get a life.

 

[English]

What you might want to do though English, is examine your own emotional baggage that you bring to the situation.

Pot...Kettle...Black....

Funny statement coming from a 5000 hour pilot that was recently hired by ExpressJet. Judging by your profile, it appears I ruffed your feathers by my statement that a 3000 hour pilot was overqualified for a 20K FO position at a regional airline. We all have our own opinions, and I shared mine. Didn't mean to offend you personally, but you need to lighten up a bit. What's up with the "emotional baggage" statement?

 

[LJDRVR]

Glad I could add some humor to your day.

Of course you ruffled my feathers. I'll try to be more concise and less emotional:

You have already pre-judged in your mind that anybody more experienced than a certain level is over-qualified for certain positions, and because of those superlative qualifications, somehow "supspect" when it comes to their motives for taking a huge pay cut and moving to the right seat. Fortunately for me, the individuals at hiring pilots at XJT were able to disabuse themselves of such notions and hire the best people for the job.

BTW, you're not the first person who thought I was crazy to this. I sometimes used to make fun of other people's career decisions, but have since come to understand that each person does what's best for them.

 

[English]

BTW, you're not the first person who thought I was crazy to this. I sometimes used to make fun of other people's career decisions, but have since come to understand that each person does what's best for them.

We are in the same boat. I quit Aloha and people thought I'd lost my marbles. I'm still fielding questions left and right about it.

I'm definitely not making fun of your decision to go to ExpressJet. We all have different goals that influence our decisions.

Good luck to you.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Why is Express letting female applicants, skip the phone interview, get an interview, and shoed in with only cessna time while more qualified applicants (by thousands of hours) get called for a phone interview and are told "You need 121, 135 or types, you do not meet current qualifications"..............what the hell!!!!!!

I think I am going to see how much for sex change, maybe I can get on a major!

TooSlow,

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you already at XJT and weren't you hired in one of our first new hire classes in 2004?

Also, I chatted with some of the women who interviewed the other day. One of the ones who was hired was a naval aviator and has been at Eagle since August 2004 but jumped ship for us. Think she wasn't qualified?

-Neal

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What's the big deal? I thought their minimums were 600 total time.

It's in this airline's best interest to hire the low time pilot, not the pilot with 3000 hours. Think about it. If you were airline management, and were into cost and labor containment, would you hire the guy with thousands of hours, whose been around the block a few times (and it familiar with labor negotiations), and who might get antsy at waiting for a 5 year upgrade and bail, or a low time pilot who is clueless about the industry who will likely quietly wait around for five years for an upgrade because they don't know any better?


They don't care about experience levels. The more experienced pilots are actually a hinderance to what regional airline management wants.

Besides, a red flag would go off in my mind if a 3000 hour pilot applied to ExpressJet. I would wonder what is holding them back than doing better than a regional airline. I probably wouldn't interview them either.

Wrong!

Exactly the opposite is going on a PCL. The low time guys are being turned away and the high time guys are being invited to class. The problem is at PCL they have nothing to offer high time pilots, in terms of work rules, benefits, pay etc...

In addition if I was watching labor cost as a manager, I'd want to employ a high time pilot. Why?

Someone else trained him but my company gets his experience.
My company insurance premiums may be lower with higher time pilots.
Higher time pilot might leave in 2-3 years. That means a New hire to take his place at first year pay. The Low time pilot will stick around for 4+ years. I'd rather have a cylce of pilots coming and going at 2 year pay then back to first year pay, then 4 year pay back to first year pay. Training cost are deductible on company tax returns....

Finally, I rather have a 3000 pilot at first year pay, (what a deal, then a 600 pilot at first year pay. Who has more vlaue?)

You start off great talking about labor containment but immediately after that you lose the reader and your explanation doesn't meet your statement.

Your comments are opinion and not really fact based. Are they? I think by year five someone would 'know better'

Explain why more expereinced pilots are a hinderence. I don't get it?

I've been furloughed twice and being qualified in a jet makes guys like me very marketable. In fact I've had my choice of regionals.... They all want me.....

 

[English]

Regional airlines don't care about experience. They just want labor at the lowest cost possible.

If they valued experience, they would have pay rates that accurately reflected one's worth at the 5, 10 and 15 year marks. They'd also offer enticements to keep pilots long-term, such as retirement pensions/401Ks (with at least a 100% match up to 6% of one's salary), and medical and travel benefits after retirement.

It's cheaper for a regional airline to recycle their entire workforce after five years than to keep someone on for twenty years. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's what is happening.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Regional airlines don't care about experience. They just want labor at the lowest cost possible.

If they valued experience, they would have pay rates that accurately reflected one's worth at the 5, 10 and 15 year marks. They'd also offer enticements to keep pilots long-term, such as retirement pensions/401Ks (with at least a 100% match up to 6% of one's salary), and medical and travel benefits after retirement.

It's cheaper for a regional airline to recycle their entire workforce after five years than to keep someone on for twenty years. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's what is happening.

This isn't necessarily true English.

Here at XJT, management agreed to hire furloughed Indy pilots ahead of non-121 pilots due to the very fact that they had 121 experience and as such, are more experienced pilots who will hopefully have less of a problem getting through training in the prescribed training timeline.

Also, our pilots in years 1-5 receive 6.5% from the company towards their 401k (if they put in 4%). In years 6-10, our pilots receive 9% from the company towards their 401k (if they put in 5%). And from years 11-15, our pilots receive 11% from the company towards their 401k (if they put in 6%). And pilots with over 20 years experience get 12% from the company if they put in 6%.

As to getting paid what you are worth...that is a misnomer. None of us are paid what we are worth. We are only paid what we have the leverage to negotiate. That is why the new UAL, DAL, CAL, etc, pay rates are where they are...and why 50 seat jet rates are where they are.

-Neal

 

[English]

Sounds like ExpressJet was able to negotiate some nice improvements in the contract this last time around. Good for you guys.

 

[dixieflyer]

Giving someone preferential treatment is not a bad thing,...as long as it's given to someone of the "victim class."

I have seen this happen in this industry many, many times. Once they are hired its almost impossible to fire them if they are weak or incompetent. It's that whole class action thing.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

I quit Aloha

who was lucky enough to take you on?

 

[Tooslow]

Neal,


I know this happened days ago, not a year ago when I was in training. I am just trying to find out why, and think about more when almost every captain I have flown with has told me horror stories about them, I think they belong at home, not in the cockpit..............

 

[pianoman]

Dude you're an idiot if you think they "belong at home". I flew with 3 female captains when I was a FO. They were all more than competent, and one of them was probably one of the best captains at my airline I'd venture to say. I'm sure there are people who got in when they shouldn't have, but there are plenty of dumb white bubbas that just knew somebody too.

Yes I am a guy BTW.

I hope I misunderstood your post. If I did, my apologies. Otherwise you are a tool.

 

[superrav]

I love women!!! thats all i have to say about that..

 

[superrav]

My big question is WHY can't we hire as many cute female F/A's as we do cute female F/O's.

<----

This would be nice..

 

[Standby 1]

My big question is WHY can't we hire as many cute female F/A's as we do cute female F/O's.

<----

Maybe that will happen when we start hiring some better looking guys. I've noticed a dearth in that department....








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[Flechas]

.....................................................

 

[sleepy]

I agree. Furloughed major airlines are a great resource of pilots for regional airlines. Twice the pilot at half the cost.

More like twice the pilot at 1/4 of the cost! But thankfully, those days are over.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I can tell you some horror stories about some dudes I have flown with......(that got a commuter job with 300 hours TT)

Neal,


I know this happened days ago, not a year ago when I was in training. I am just trying to find out why, and think about more when almost every captain I have flown with has told me horror stories about them, I think they belong at home, not in the cockpit..............

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal,


I know this happened days ago, not a year ago when I was in training. I am just trying to find out why, and think about more when almost every captain I have flown with has told me horror stories about them, I think they belong at home, not in the cockpit..............

Surely this is a sick joke? If it is, it is not funny. If its not, one day HR will catch up with you I'm sure. What comes around, goes around...

-Neal

 

[I.P. Freley]

Commuting up to IND to start Indoc for the 170, met 2 Mesa pilots and being the excited newbie that I was, I asked who they worked for if they liked it..blah blah blah for about 5 mins, conversation was going great until they asked me who I worked for..then their whole attitude changed.

That's an interesting tale, Mesa pilots looking down on a CHQ newhire!

 

[jumppilot]

Regional airlines don't care about experience. They just want labor at the lowest cost possible.

If they valued experience, they would have pay rates that accurately reflected one's worth at the 5, 10 and 15 year marks.

Sorry, not in today's market.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Maybe that will happen when we start hiring some better looking guys. I've noticed a dearth in that department....








.

Don't worry.... my application is on file!

 

[FR8mastr]

I am not getting in this fight. But a funny thing I notice is one guy will complain about a female pilot, in any capacity and you can guarantee some other guy will post shortly on how he flew with a female and she is the greatest pilot ever, bar none. apparently if you are a female pilot you are either Patty wagstaff, chuck yeager and bob Hoover all rolled into one, or you stink. LOL

 

[Bluto]

No, I think those are the only ones you hear about. The rest of them are just average pilots like most of us.

 

[rumorhasit]

Everyone is just fighting for a chance to make it...and keep it when they get there!!! Sometimes it is not what you know but who you know and I am finding out this is the hardest business to make it into next to be being a porn star/Rock star....lol

For some it is always tough on the outside looking in and watching everyone pass you by who appear to have an "IN"...but what the fck...

 

[crashpad]

I can tell you some horror stories about some dudes I have flown with......(that got a commuter job with 300 hours TT)

I'm afraid that's becoming commonplace again. What $ucks even more is they will never really appreciate what they have (much like relationships).

 

[capt. megadeth]

I'm afraid that's becoming commonplace again. What $ucks even more is they will never really appreciate what they have (much like relationships).

HUH?????? Are you a female? I said DUDES (ie. males)

 

[crashpad]

I'm a dude who agrees with you. Shocked?