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ExpressJet $10 million concessions?

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DoinTime said:
Hold on here...I thought the great and powerful DALPA negotiated delta down to 125 50-seaters? Isn't that why you allowed addition 76-seaters and proclaimed victory in the reduction of outsourced flying? Now you say RA was going to reduce the 50-seat fleet regardless? Sounds to me like you got took.
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No, there were many pieces in the eventual puzzle that had to come together. The 50 seaters were in the way out, eventually. I saw the lease dates, over 300 of the 50 seaters had leases through 2015. Keeping them all would have delayed any "100 seater" (717 or something similar like E190 etc) until at least 2015 because there would be too many seats available in the market. So, allowing 70 more 76 seaters gave the incentive to the manufacturers to try to make a deal to take back some of the 50 seaters earlier (than the lease allowed). I believe Bombardier will take 60 of them back with the purchase of the 76 seaters. The recent rumor about mainline looking at 24-30 737s or 320s also has a string attached to take even more of the 50 seaters with them also. So, dumping the 50 seaters allows the remaining 70 and 76 seaters to cover the outgoing 50 seater routes, which in turn allows the 717s to finally recapture old mainline routes that were given to 70 and 76 seaters, thus returning some routes full circle back to mainline. The whole plan actually is pure genius. Even the pay rates on the 717 are good, especially by 2015, with Capt rates at 12th year at $195 an hour, on the smallest mainline plane by then. Then, adding 88 717s over 3 years and 14 MD90s could eventually add 1000 or so mainline jobs, which is good for future hires.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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General Lee said:
No, there were many pieces in the eventual puzzle that had to come together. The 50 seaters were in the way out, eventually. I saw the lease dates, over 300 of the 50 seaters had leases through 2015. Keeping them all would have delayed any "100 seater" (717 or something similar like E190 etc) until at least 2015 because there would be too many seats available in the market. So, allowing 70 more 76 seaters gave the incentive to the manufacturers to try to make a deal to take back some of the 50 seaters earlier (than the lease allowed). I believe Bombardier will take 60 of them back with the purchase of the 76 seaters. The recent rumor about mainline looking at 24-30 737s or 320s also has a string attached to take even more of the 50 seaters with them also. So, dumping the 50 seaters allows the remaining 70 and 76 seaters to cover the outgoing 50 seater routes, which in turn allows the 717s to finally recapture old mainline routes that were given to 70 and 76 seaters, thus returning some routes full circle back to mainline. The whole plan actually is pure genius. Even the pay rates on the 717 are good, especially by 2015, with Capt rates at 12th year at $195 an hour, on the smallest mainline plane by then. Then, adding 88 717s over 3 years and 14 MD90s could eventually add 1000 or so mainline jobs, which is good for future hires.



Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

I like how you think and hope you're right
 
General Lee said:
No, there were many pieces in the eventual puzzle that had to come together. The 50 seaters were in the way out, eventually. I saw the lease dates, over 300 of the 50 seaters had leases through 2015. Keeping them all would have delayed any "100 seater" (717 or something similar like E190 etc) until at least 2015 because there would be too many seats available in the market. So, allowing 70 more 76 seaters gave the incentive to the manufacturers to try to make a deal to take back some of the 50 seaters earlier (than the lease allowed). I believe Bombardier will take 60 of them back with the purchase of the 76 seaters. The recent rumor about mainline looking at 24-30 737s or 320s also has a string attached to take even more of the 50 seaters with them also. So, dumping the 50 seaters allows the remaining 70 and 76 seaters to cover the outgoing 50 seater routes, which in turn allows the 717s to finally recapture old mainline routes that were given to 70 and 76 seaters, thus returning some routes full circle back to mainline. The whole plan actually is pure genius. Even the pay rates on the 717 are good, especially by 2015, with Capt rates at 12th year at $195 an hour, on the smallest mainline plane by then. Then, adding 88 717s over 3 years and 14 MD90s could eventually add 1000 or so mainline jobs, which is good for future hires.



Bye Bye---General Lee
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Yes General- it's very good for the PCL pilots, but not good for many, if any of the other DCI pilots. It's good to see that the PCL pilots will get the majority of newhire slots at DAL based solely on their ability to accept concessions and hose XJet. For many of the qualified professionals at XJet that have hung their hat on the DAL bandwagon, they are now seeking other opportunities at UAL an LCC as a result of this. I still can't believe the deal the PCL people got at our expense.
 
JumpersAway said:
Yes General- it's very good for the PCL pilots, but not good for many, if any of the other DCI pilots. It's good to see that the PCL pilots will get the majority of newhire slots at DAL based solely on their ability to accept concessions and hose XJet. For many of the qualified professionals at XJet that have hung their hat on the DAL bandwagon, they are now seeking other opportunities at UAL an LCC as a result of this. I still can't believe the deal the PCL people got at our expense.
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If you were a PCL pilot would you put your career and family first, or some stranger at another regional airline?
 
SAABaroowski said:
If you were a PCL pilot would you put your career and family first, or some stranger at another regional airline?
Click to expand...

To answer candidly, and honestly- I would have voted no. Here is why:
-I feel that I work far too hard for far too little pay, as it is. (I'm on Reserve at XJet)
-I don't think PCL has a viable future anyway, and I would have rather forced a liquidation in order to follow the planes for a better QOL at another company.
-Regionals are hiring like mad at the moment, and it will only get more frantic as time progresses.
-I've been wise enough to expect this for awhile, and thus, have a fund set aside to float through first year pay all over again at another regional, if that's where I opted to fly.

There will be no concessions from me at XJet, and FU Pinnacle!
 
Plainsman said:
Maybe that's what Delta wants, a bunch of light weights that will fall for anything.
Click to expand...


There is a lot of merit to that statement. Delta has always been a majority military trained group. They have similar patterns in contract votes. If you were in the Delta HR group, this represents an opportunity to put a good chunk of pro-concessionary votes into your block. Plus, these noodles will be around for several contract votes.
 
I think it would behoove all of us to build up as much savings as we can. I built up a "strike fund" in '07 that luckily I still have. That makes it easier to vote down any POS TA the company tries to cram down our throat.

Remember....they cried poor back then. Said they'd have to SHUT THE DOORS if we didn't take a paycut. My response back then was IF YOU CAN'T PAY A LIVABLE WAGE FOR WHAT A FLIGHT CREW HAS TO DO TO OPERATE AN AIRCRAFT SAFELY then maybe this company NEEDS to go away. It would send a strong message to other regional managers that we WOULD rather shut it down than take a cut. Unfortunately other regional pilots have to "put their families first" and take anything offered.

To all the people who view all this chest beating as "humorous". the ones who say ”I'm not gonna put my family second to a bunch of pilots at another regional" you will NEVER GET IT. Do you think soldiers should leave their families to be deployed into a combat zone? Is that "putting their families first? If you we're a soldier could I count on you to defend our country or would you go AWOL to avoid being deployed so you could "put your family first?" I bet you would go, because that's where your money comes from.

It all seems to be about money.....nothing else. The only way you can look at yourself in the mirror is to proudly say "I put MY family first, so I'm not a sellout"

Congratulations.....welcome to your form of dignity.

It is NOT about putting other pilots first before your family. It is the dignity you have for YOURSELF not to work for substandard wages. I spend enough time away from home and been on reserve for YEARS and now I'm told I must take a pay cut?

Let me be clear on this..... I will vote no and take "food out of my kids mouths" if a substandard TA is presented. I am prepared financially. And would have no reservations.

If this supposed "shortage" materializes we are on the verge of one of the greatest opportunities of our careers. Most are still playing checkers living paycheck to paycheck fighting for scraps.

So for the Pinnacle guys...You faced a tough decision and had to make a call. I disagree with your collective call. Looks like we might be next. This group had the ball$ to say no last time. We will see what we do this time. And yes I know it is different world and fee for departure is gone and our rates got reset and yada, yada, yada...not my fault.

Now cue the "I hope it does happen to your pilot group so you can see how it feels" crowd. The "you'll see.....you'll change your tune when it happens to you" crowd. Thanks brother. Been here before in a different industry.....I shut it down and walked away last time.....I'll do it again.

FIND THE MONEY SOMEPLACE ELSE!!!
 
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BUDDHA145 said:
The senior 20% of the pilots that buried the rest of their fellow pilots by signing concessions.
The got the iron cojones!!
Click to expand...

Because 20% is the clear majority.
 
COOPERVANE said:
I think it would behoove all of us to build up as much savings as we can. I built up a "strike fund" in '07 that luckily I still have. That makes it easier to vote down any POS TA the company tries to cram down our throat.

Remember....they cried poor back then. Said they'd have to SHUT THE DOORS if we didn't take a paycut. My response back then was IF YOU CAN'T PAY A LIVABLE WAGE FOR WHAT A FLIGHT CREW HAS TO DO TO OPERATE AN AIRCRAFT SAFELY then maybe this company NEEDS to go away. It would send a strong message to other regional managers that we WOULD rather shut it down than take a cut. Unfortunately other regional pilots have to "put their families first" and take anything offered.

To all the people who view all this chest beating as "humorous". the ones who say ”I'm not gonna put my family second to a bunch of pilots at another regional" you will NEVER GET IT. Do you think soldiers should leave their families to be deployed into a combat zone? Is that "putting their families first? If you we're a soldier could I count on you to defend our country or would you go AWOL to avoid being deployed so you could "put your family first?" I bet you would go, because that's where your money comes from.

It all seems to be about money.....nothing else. The only way you can look at yourself in the mirror is to proudly say "I put MY family first, so I'm not a sellout"

Congratulations.....welcome to your form of dignity.

It is NOT about putting other pilots first before your family. It is the dignity you have for YOURSELF not to work for substandard wages. I spend enough time away from home and been on reserve for YEARS and now I'm told I must take a pay cut?

Let me be clear on this..... I will vote no and take "food out of my kids mouths" if a substandard TA is presented. I am prepared financially. And would have no reservations.

If this supposed "shortage" materializes we are on the verge of one of the greatest opportunities of our careers. Most are still playing checkers living paycheck to paycheck fighting for scraps.

So for the Pinnacle guys...You faced a tough decision and had to make a call. I disagree with your collective call. Looks like we might be next. This group had the ball$ to say no last time. We will see what we do this time. And yes I know it is different world and fee for departure is gone and our rates got reset and yada, yada, yada...not my fault.

Now cue the "I hope it does happen to your pilot group so you can see how it feels" crowd. The "you'll see.....you'll change your tune when it happens to you" crowd. Thanks brother. Been here before in a different industry.....I shut it down and walked away last time.....I'll do it again.

FIND THE MONEY SOMEPLACE ELSE!!!
Click to expand...

*standing ovation* *throws old flight attendant panties on stage*
 
The simple fact is, they ask for paycuts across the board because they know we are all a bunch of pansies. This industry is crowded with spineless twerps.
 
brokeflyer said:
The ceo takes home $20 million a year yet they want YOU to take a pay cut.
Click to expand...

Which CEO are you referring to? I'm not aware of a SkyWest management head, or any of the PNCL crowd that make that sort of dough. PT is the only golden parachuter I know of from PCL- took a nice 10 mil bonus before punching out to "retire".
 
I heard something funny today. Apparently, someone was raving about DAL trying to buy XJet back. Allegedly in September, DAL approached JA for the purchase, but SkyWest Inc. turned them down. I'm sure we would have been run through the financial wringer just the same as PCL if that was to actually transpire. I'm curious to know why SkyWest Inc. decided to hold onto us.
 
General Lee said:
No, there were many pieces in the eventual puzzle that had to come together. The 50 seaters were in the way out, eventually. I saw the lease dates, over 300 of the 50 seaters had leases through 2015. Keeping them all would have delayed any "100 seater" (717 or something similar like E190 etc) until at least 2015 because there would be too many seats available in the market. So, allowing 70 more 76 seaters gave the incentive to the manufacturers to try to make a deal to take back some of the 50 seaters earlier (than the lease allowed). I believe Bombardier will take 60 of them back with the purchase of the 76 seaters. The recent rumor about mainline looking at 24-30 737s or 320s also has a string attached to take even more of the 50 seaters with them also. So, dumping the 50 seaters allows the remaining 70 and 76 seaters to cover the outgoing 50 seater routes, which in turn allows the 717s to finally recapture old mainline routes that were given to 70 and 76 seaters, thus returning some routes full circle back to mainline. The whole plan actually is pure genius. Even the pay rates on the 717 are good, especially by 2015, with Capt rates at 12th year at $195 an hour, on the smallest mainline plane by then. Then, adding 88 717s over 3 years and 14 MD90s could eventually add 1000 or so mainline jobs, which is good for future hires.



Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

Help me with this Gen Lee. At what point does Delta have to be at 125 CR2s?
 
The Embraer sales team is flying in a E175 on this Friday according to Brads update. That helps explain the large RJ rates with L-XJT

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2
 
To whom are they selling the airplane, Management, or the employees? I don't write checks for airplanes.

Or do I?
 
Dangling that aircraft in front of us and negotiating with L-Xjet only?

Naaaaaa no carrot on a stick......naaaaaaa
 
COOPERVANE said:
Dangling that aircraft in front of us and negotiating with L-Xjet only?

Naaaaaa no carrot on a stick......naaaaaaa
Click to expand...

So the joke goes... "how many pilots does it take to screw in a light bulb? Just one, but he stands there holding the bulb while the world revolves around him"

When are you people going to learn it has so little to do with us. You really think the GO would orchestrate an E-175 Demo JUST for contract negotiations? Just to "dangle a carrot"??? Honestly I have no idea why Embraer would ever come to our GO since our decision makers are in St. George and the DAL decision makers are on the east end of the field. I do highly doubt it has ANYthing to do with our pilot group.
 
777forever said:
It's when the final 70th 70 seater shows up after the last 717 hits the line

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

That would be about 3 years I believe. DL gets 16 717s this year, and 36 each the next two years. Combine that with 13 MD90s this year and retirements over the next 5 years, and there will be some hiring.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

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