Ex-United pilots weigh future without pension

[canyonblue]

Whatever Mugs, you're the one that always has something bad to say about Southwest so save it. I could care less what you think, you have issues. Well it is nice to see that many members are concerned about the retirement problem at UAL. There are a lot of pilots over there that are almost 60. With what has happened, I'm sure that you and others on this thread would support them in procuring a better retirement by supporting the repeal of age 60. That would ensure then ample time to recoup some losses that were just taken from them and also double their PBDG payment. If so show your support, otherwise, just what I expected from you.

 

[Andy]

With what has happened, I'm sure that you and others on this thread would support them in procuring a better retirement by supporting the repeal of age 60. That would ensure then ample time to recoup some losses that were just taken from them and also double their PBDG payment. If so show your support, otherwise, just what I expected from you.

Canyonblue, I have felt for a while that the repeal of the age 60 rule was a matter of time. (I am vehemently opposed to any repeal; I am about 1500 from recall at UAL and 44 yrs old. While I don't expect to see the left seat of a widebody in my career, I would like to get back on property before 2010).
The termination of pensions could be the lightning rod issue for congress to raise the retirement age.
I just hope that they do it wisely, with a graduated increase in retirement age. And for safety's sake, do not allow anyone over 60 to be PIC.

 

[CSY Mon]

I just hope that they do it wisely,

Ha-ha, is that the same Government that has no hourly restriction or limitations on Internatioal duty time for cockpit crews?

Big joke it is:

Ya are legal to be awake and on duty for 40 hours or more...No problem.
Shoot that last approach in crappy weather in a crappy airplane with a dead tired crew and voila..Pilot Error...All approved by congress and the FAA as well as yer chief pilot, yer D.O.I and yer occasioanly, yer union.

Domestic rules however are much stricter, 'cause the public and the lawyers have something to say about a crew that was on duty for 14 hours and crashed.
Outside the US borders ya are still legal after 50 hours on duty, just don't tell the pax or the boxes.

 

[Mugs]

Whatever Mugs, you're the one that always has something bad to say about Southwest so save it. I could care less what you think, you have issues. Well it is nice to see that many members are concerned about the retirement problem at UAL. There are a lot of pilots over there that are almost 60. With what has happened, I'm sure that you and others on this thread would support them in procuring a better retirement by supporting the repeal of age 60. That would ensure then ample time to recoup some losses that were just taken from them and also double their PBDG payment. If so show your support, otherwise, just what I expected from you.

You're right Canyon, I do have issues. I have issues with the small group of pompous bozos at every airline. You just happen to be one that works for Southwest. So, any luck getting a no fly bid with SWA dude yet? I suppose listening to common sense from a guy with tremendous experience in this industry is too much for you to deal with. Grow up and stop being an embarrassment to your Company on this forum. Your peers have already given you that advice.

I agree that the two UAL retired pilots in the article should not be in a world of hurt financially because of losing their pensions. Thirty years plus with a UAL seniority number should have given them plenty of chances to save and invest for reitrement. Instead, they depended heavily on the A-plan. So, you could say that they made a mistake and did not plan well. You Canyon, on the other hand, simply call them "idiots."

And you wonder why I respond negatively to your posts?

 

[canyonblue]

And you wonder why I respond negatively to your posts?

Then at least respond on the issue of age 60. Many people besides those 2 retired UAL pilots are facing a world of hurt, age 65 would at least provide for those that need it most. As far as SWAdude, maybe you like him because he is the only Southwest pilot I have ever seen on this board that clashes with his fellow Southwest pilots with an imperious tone, SWA/FO and RVR300 come to mind. His manner towards me was what tripped me. I would not take that from him in the cockpit, and I wouldn’t take it from him here. We don't see much of that at Southwest from our Captains, only a few. Don’t try to come off in any other way, you have been negative towards Southwest and it’s pilots since you have been on this forum.

 

[TAZ MAN]

As far as SWAdude, maybe you like him because he is the only Southwest pilot I have ever seen on this board that clashes with his fellow Southwest pilots with an imperious tone, SWA/FO and RVR300 come to mind. His manner towards me was what tripped me. I would not take that from him in the cockpit, and I wouldn’t take it from him here. We don't see much of that at Southwest from our Captains, only a few.

Oh please. Your the one with the tone pal. SWAdude was just trying to save the face of other great SWA pilots that your attitude put in jeopardy. Noticed he has kept a distance why you still try to slam his character. He keeps his dignity while you just keep on throwing yours away. You even try to bring him out on other threads he hasn't even posted on.

Its the ones like SWAdude who keeps others from thinking the whole lot of you are arrogant pinheads.

You are so out of touch to think this anything like a cockpit. What would you do, hit him!! Please. You are so self-rightous.

I say again, grow up!!

I've had enough of you. Take the last word Mr. fo

 

[satpak77]

in case anyone was wondering

let me remind everyone that years ago Pan Am, with its "ownership" of the predecessor to the FAA, and its international route dominance, was "the place" to be hired

years later, we were all reminded via Kit Darby and others how Delta "never furloughed, ever, in its history"

don't anyone get too cocky and think SWA, while yes, one of the best run, well managed companies in America, cannot also, fall prey to outside airline market forces and it too have problems

"well, not at SWA, I mean, this is SWA" is the wrong stance to have, because many many before at other carriers said the same thing.

dont get your tampons in a wad if you dont like this post. If the shoe does not fit, dont reach down and put it on, then b1tch to me your feet hurt. A few on this board (on this thread) should pay attention however

my 2 cents

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

let me remind everyone that years ago Pan Am, with its "ownership" of the predecessor to the FAA, and its international route dominance, was "the place" to be hired

years later, we were all reminded via Kit Darby and others how Delta "never furloughed, ever, in its history"

don't anyone get too cocky and think SWA, while yes, one of the best run, well managed companies in America, cannot also, fall prey to outside airline market forces and it too have problems

"well, not at SWA, I mean, this is SWA" is the wrong stance to have, because many many before at other carriers said the same thing.

dont get your tampons in a wad if you dont like this post. If the shoe does not fit, dont reach down and put it on, then b1tch to me your feet hurt. A few on this board (on this thread) should pay attention however

my 2 cents

Well said Satpak77,

All you SWA guys out there, please don't take this as SWA bashing. I just agree with this post!

"Never say Never"

 

[Spooky 1]

Canyonblue, I have felt for a while that the repeal of the age 60 rule was a matter of time. (I am vehemently opposed to any repeal; I am about 1500 from recall at UAL and 44 yrs old. While I don't expect to see the left seat of a widebody in my career, I would like to get back on property before 2010).
The termination of pensions could be the lightning rod issue for congress to raise the retirement age.
I just hope that they do it wisely, with a graduated increase in retirement age. And for safety's sake, do not allow anyone over 60 to be PIC.

"And for safety's sake, do not allow anyone over 60 to be PIC". WTF does that mean? I assume that if you were actually over 60, and flying as SIC you would probably still get a leg once and awhile? So if I could kill you as SIC, when God for bid I had my hands on the controls why would it make any difference if I was the PIC in the first place?

The age 60 deal is bogus at best. You can see from the posts on this subject that it is driven by either the Jr. guy/gal wanting to move up, or by the Sr. guy/gal wanting to stay a little longer. Both have their merits. But to suggest that a pilot becomes unsafe one day after he turns age sixty is simply out of bounds for any reasonable person to believe.

Don't know where you fly but looks like some Air Force time in your logs perhaps. When you went through PT did you were assigned 4 engine transports. Was this because you were not at the top of your class? I am sure that you do not believe that you are a lessor pilot just because you did not get F15's or F16"s? Hell no, you worked your butt off and became the best you could simply out of personal pride (I assume?). Some of us older guys have that same quality. In either case the idea that age 60 makes you unfit as a PIC is just really uncalled for.

BTW. I am an old fart and over 62. Still flying a Boeing as PIC, all over the world with guys who are younger than myself. Don't see them grabbing the controls and sweating every decision or takeoff and landing that I make. Not sure what your life experiences are that make you feel so insecure but most AF guys that I know don't seem to suffer from this problem. How did this infliction get to you?

 

[Dan Roman]

Amazing some of the attitudes on this board. I am an old fart and in the past there were some great airlines. Real airlines not just some swinging dick that could sell a ticket for less than the guy next door. The hiring was not done via some internet chat sight and while there were a host of chatacters that slipped through the cracks, for the most part they were a pretty good bunch of pilots and had a sense of character that is not always seen on this board.

Story in point. I have a good friend whose father, a medically retired UAL pilot passed away after a lengthy period of illness. His mother who also depended on the UAL retirement and more importantly medical is seriously ill with Alzheimers. (sp)? Basically this person is at serious risk for a lack of health insurance and the burden of dedicated care that she needs to sustain life, not just quality life, but life period. This is just one of many things that can wipe you out financially in a nano second.

Therefore I hope all of you with such insight and life experiences have at least a million dollars or more to assist if and when something like this strikes you or your family. I doubt if there is enough SWA stock in anyones portfolio to handle some of the really sh@#y things that can come your way, overnight in some cases.

If anyone on this board thinks that SWA or JetBlue are immune to the same issues that have befallen some of the great airlines of the past, and not just ones here in the US, but all over the world, then you are doomed to repeat the same failures, although it might be for different reason.

A pretty good book to read is called "Sky Gods". It chronicles the glory days of hiring and flying for Pan Am starting in the mid sixties. Pretty heady stuff that would certainly lure most if not all aspiring airline pilots to believe that they were bullet proof. Witten by a former PAA/DAL pilot.

Getting long winded here so I'll get of my soap box and just say that first of all getting a handle on an individuals sistuation via a news paper account is risky at best. Secondly there are so many variables to life that those who preach are at best just blowing smoke up your ass.

Besides all the me me me and my situation stuff here, there is some good points being raised. I thought spookys was excellant. For what it's worth, I think another good component to retirement savings is getting long term care insurance. I'm not an expert but I know enough to suggest looking into it and making up your own mind. I did and it seems like a good investment. Key is the younger you get it, the cheaper it is.