Ever get Turned or Slowed for The "Love Machine"?

[T B O N E]

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While I wouldn't call either pattern an overhead or SFO that is interesting and I stand corrected on the st-in. I guess my source of Michael Bay and Armageddon wasn't the best....

What is an Earth Harizon though?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

You should be thanking United for this one.

Besides. I think you're lying. I've NEVER seen the controllers in PDX or SEA "hook us up." Horizon and Alaska have the home field advantage which, BTW, I think is a goood thing.

Gup

You guys are in total denial....Blame the landing plane???....SWA gets TIPH just because, and it's the rollout plane's fault?? I just want to make sure I have your argument straight Gup.....

The smart-a$$ radio call was truly a shining moment for you....(shaking head)

 

[Old School 737]

You should be thanking United for this one.

Besides. I think you're lying. I've NEVER seen the controllers in PDX or SEA "hook us up." Horizon and Alaska have the home field advantage which, BTW, I think is a goood thing.

Gup

No lie! I'll get you a copy of the O53 report if you like. Don't get me wrong I like SWA they are great guys but ATC does seem to help them a bit more than others. It was a new controller and he never should have put them into positionin the first place. We were tight on UAL to begin with due to approach controller and they were in a 757 a med sized runway with no highspeeds so you know he is gonna use most of it. I don't think the SWA guy was spooled up though because when he did get clearance it took a while for him to roll.

 

[Quimby]

So a controller thought they could squeeze an a/c out (happened to be SWA), a/c on final has to go around.

Earth shattering news. This has never, ever happened before.

(is the sarcasm thick enough?)

Lots of new controllers out there & many more to come in the next few years.

 

[ASApuppy]

I Luv this topic. Too Bad it so long to to air out. I can cite 3 times we got slammed by ATC to help SWA out.

1) In ONT, rare east flow, was cleared for position and hold. Then out rolls SWA from the gate. They are cleared for takeoff from the intersection in front of us while we sit at the end of the runway. WTF?

2) in LAS, we are next in line for takeoff, but we hear SWA cleared for takeoff from the number 2 spot. Then ATC asks us if we are on freq yet. I responded, "Yep, heard the 3 guys in front of us and the guy behind us cleared for takeoff".

3) also in LAS, had SWA follow us from LAX the whole flight. We get to approach and we are extended on downwind to Hoover Dam while SWA is turned for base behind us.

I'm all for SWA thumping us on tickets and their costs, but I draw the line at ATC favors. That should be an unbiased, level field.

 

[GuppyWN]

You guys are in total denial....Blame the landing plane???....SWA gets TIPH just because, and it's the rollout plane's fault?? I just want to make sure I have your argument straight Gup.....

The smart-a$$ radio call was truly a shining moment for you....(shaking head)

Bill,

Really? I know you and I like to banter but you can't win this one! :laugh: How could the SWA guys take off with Big Yo still on the runway? He cannot possibly clear you for takeoff until the arriving aircraft if clear of the hold short line and I've got a feeling that The Mother Ship didn't try too hard to help out. A good controller would say "SWA be ready and United minimum time on the runway please." I would be spooled and creeping when I heard "Southw......."

OldSchool, Sorry about that bro.

Gup

 

[100/hour/5y]

Well I'd prefer a nice medium rare ribeye from Eddy V's in Austin as well but I've been pleasantly surprised at the new menu choices on the 757 and 767 this year. And out in the Pacific on the 767-400 out of Guam and Japan, the menu is set for crews but always spicy and tasty. The Guam based FA's will cook and bring things to heat up on the NRT day trips. They always offer us their homeade treats on top of our crew meals. But I know, I'm just a lowly FO who doesn't make $200 and hour and doesn't get to enjoy power layovers of 12-16 hours where a mad dash to a steak place to throw my money around and suck a few drinks down before I bump up against the 8 hour rule.......my life sucks.....

CAL SUCKS!

We have about 15 FO's at cal in the pool that are ready to leave tomorrow...

 

[rajflyboy]

I Luv this topic. Too Bad it so long to to air out. I can cite 3 times we got slammed by ATC to help SWA out.

1) In ONT, rare east flow, was cleared for position and hold. Then out rolls SWA from the gate. They are cleared for takeoff from the intersection in front of us while we sit at the end of the runway. WTF?

2) in LAS, we are next in line for takeoff, but we hear SWA cleared for takeoff from the number 2 spot. Then ATC asks us if we are on freq yet. I responded, "Yep, heard the 3 guys in front of us and the guy behind us cleared for takeoff".

3) also in LAS, had SWA follow us from LAX the whole flight. We get to approach and we are extended on downwind to Hoover Dam while SWA is turned for base behind us.

I'm all for SWA thumping us on tickets and their costs, but I draw the line at ATC favors. That should be an unbiased, level field.

I concur with you!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Bill,

Really? I know you and I like to banter but you can't win this one! :laugh: How could the SWA guys take off with Big Yo still on the runway? He cannot possibly clear you for takeoff until the arriving aircraft if clear of the hold short line and I've got a feeling that The Mother Ship didn't try too hard to help out. A good controller would say "SWA be ready and United minimum time on the runway please." I would be spooled and creeping when I heard "Southw......."

OldSchool, Sorry about that bro.

Gup

C'mon Gup!!! Again, blaming United....what's he to gain by rolling long?

A "GOOD FOR SOUTHWEST" controller would say SWA "Be ready...." completely outside of the pilot-controller glossary or ICAO standards for takeoff clearances. This same procedure increases the chances of landover incidents and the like all in the name of helping you expedite? Anybody who accepts a "squeeze play" just adds to the drop in Safety Margin.

My dog in this fight is at FLL in a full 767, the controller tried this and got burned. We went around, SWA was rolling, took off, we tried to deviate right to keep a visual with the deck angle at 20 degrees. SWA was told to maintain visual while we both got a TA/RA and the controller turned us due south at 600 feet....IMMEDIATE turn, while SWA gets a "contact Departure....Good Day!" Scary and the controllers fault but ENCOURAGED by guys like you ready to "spool em up".

 

[Quimby]

I Luv this topic. Too Bad it so long to to air out. I can cite 3 times we got slammed by ATC to help SWA out.

1) In ONT, rare east flow, was cleared for position and hold. Then out rolls SWA from the gate. They are cleared for takeoff from the intersection in front of us while we sit at the end of the runway. WTF?

2) in LAS, we are next in line for takeoff, but we hear SWA cleared for takeoff from the number 2 spot. Then ATC asks us if we are on freq yet. I responded, "Yep, heard the 3 guys in front of us and the guy behind us cleared for takeoff".

3) also in LAS, had SWA follow us from LAX the whole flight. We get to approach and we are extended on downwind to Hoover Dam while SWA is turned for base behind us.

I'm all for SWA thumping us on tickets and their costs, but I draw the line at ATC favors. That should be an unbiased, level field.

Maybe they had a flow time to SFO/PHX/LAS.

 

[waveflyer]

There it is! Was just waiting for the safety card to be played.
Do you run from your own shadow too?

 

[StopNTSing]

I Luv this topic. Too Bad it so long to to air out. I can cite 3 times we got slammed by ATC to help SWA out.

1) In ONT, rare east flow, was cleared for position and hold. Then out rolls SWA from the gate. They are cleared for takeoff from the intersection in front of us while we sit at the end of the runway. WTF?

2) in LAS, we are next in line for takeoff, but we hear SWA cleared for takeoff from the number 2 spot. Then ATC asks us if we are on freq yet. I responded, "Yep, heard the 3 guys in front of us and the guy behind us cleared for takeoff".

Do you know what flow times are?

3) also in LAS, had SWA follow us from LAX the whole flight. We get to approach and we are extended on downwind to Hoover Dam while SWA is turned for base behind us.

That one might actually have some merit. Though as anyone who's flown through LAS in the last ten years will tell you, ATC has really dumbed-down the system and started doing some really strange things.

I'm all for SWA thumping us on tickets and their costs, but I draw the line at ATC favors. That should be an unbiased, level field.

See my earlier post on this thread.

 

[piav8r]

Lots of new controllers out there & many more to come in the next few years.

Are we sure they are experienced enough? Unless they've been graced by the almighty I'm not sure they are worthy enough to move on and be real live controllers!

<Lots of sarcasm>

 

[get2flyin]

LOL...yeah, I've gotten the "they have a flow time" BS from LAS, then we follow them to the SAME destination and they slow us down so we don't overtake them. I love that. Truthfully, the majority of it is our own fault. I've never seen them slow down intentionally to make a few extra dollars on an overblock. In fact it's usually the reverse. "South West, say speed", "Uh...we're slowing now".

 

[GuppyWN]

My all time favorite -

ATC: Southwest 1 say airspeed.
SWA1: Airspeed.
ATC: Say Holding
SWA1: 300 knots.

Everybody was having a good laugh at that one, including the controller. No harm no foul. Go hard go home. Repeat.

Gup