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Europe to the US in a light jet
- Thread starter LXApilot
- Start date
- Watchers 10
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pilot error
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2004
- Posts
- 189
shouldn't need one for any of those places, unless you swing by france while you are over there.
Gulfstream 200
Database Expert
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Posts
- 4,574
I'm guessing you will be SIC on the trip? or at least going w someone who has done this before?
Its not really rocket science, but that plane and those routes may not be the best way to make your first crossing as PIC...
and as the other guy said, I'd be more concerned about why its stranded and what kind of operation was running it prior...theres many questions...from is it simply airworthy to does it have a customs decal?
Visas? nah...but brush up on canpass and EAPIS.
Talk to some handlers, but dont simply rely on a Universal etc as the final word..they have recently completely botched some simple trips for us and we are now using a small handler for needs and use ARINC for 90% of our Intl stuff ourselves...much easier.
nothing particularly difficult about this, but planning makes it all happen.
enjoy!
Its not really rocket science, but that plane and those routes may not be the best way to make your first crossing as PIC...
and as the other guy said, I'd be more concerned about why its stranded and what kind of operation was running it prior...theres many questions...from is it simply airworthy to does it have a customs decal?
Visas? nah...but brush up on canpass and EAPIS.
Talk to some handlers, but dont simply rely on a Universal etc as the final word..they have recently completely botched some simple trips for us and we are now using a small handler for needs and use ARINC for 90% of our Intl stuff ourselves...much easier.
nothing particularly difficult about this, but planning makes it all happen.
enjoy!
Being a us citizen there are no visa requirements (unless the plane is stuck outside of the European Union). I have done the trip in a 550 and it is very easy but there are a few things to remember. First off you cannot just hop in an airplane and fly across the North Atlantic. You need to have completed a training program as per transport of Canada (although I am not sure if everyone actually does and no one checks). At the very least you will need to learn the basics about picking up oceanic clearances and such. I know your not going across the tracks but you still have to get an oceanic clearance! Once you do it once you will find it very easy but learning before you go will make your flight go a lot smoother. I sent you a private message if you have any questions let me know and I will help you the best I can.
belchfire
unpredictable member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
- Posts
- 27,769
Good advice...
Start off by getting yourself a Jeppeson North Atlantic Orientation Chart and reading it and understanding it. Many pages of information and the basic requirements for flying the various routes...
Besides RVSM, you will also need to be MNPS approved (which it sounds like you're not). Here are my notes from a flight I made a couple of years ago, with a Fokker that was not MNPS certified....
EXPERIENCE NOTES FROM FOKKER FERRY FLIGHT BETWEEN DETROIT AND WOENSDRECHT
These notes are from experiences encountered delivering xxxx to Woensdrecht for the Fokker 12-year inspection, the test flight after the inspection was completed, and then the return flight back to Detroit. The delivery flight occurred over the night of January 6, 2006, the test flight occurred on February 20, 2006 and the return flight on February 21. Management can speak of all the permits required to make this flight happen, but at the time of this flight, we needed relief from the AFM over water restriction and the European requirement for ATC Mode S transponder. The Fokker (Honeywell) FMS is not certified for MNPS airspace so the flight is limited to a maximum of FL280, with no HF radios, routing is restricted to “Blue Spruce” routing, and once within European airspace, without VHF 8.33 frequency spacing forces operation to below FL245.
Detroit to Woensdrecht:
Routing to Europe is pretty limited from Detroit; going through Goose Bay (CYYR) and Keflavik (BIKF) enroute to Woensdrecht (EHWO): -PISTN DXO020 ADRIE V450 ZR V308 YXU J586 YCF J588 YMX J546 UFX ML J553 PN J564 YR. Since we traveled in January, we expected very cold temperatures at Goose Bay but actually it was mild at 1°c. Our best alternate airport was Stephenville (CYJT), which is about 1 hour south of Goose Bay, and their weather and fuel supply can be a concern more than the weather at Goose Bay. In our case, it was VFR at both airports but Stephenville was rationing Jet B fuel on our night of travel. Our FBO at Goose Bay was Irving and they were very fast and efficient. Used CANPASS here for Canadian Customs, and you will be able to use your Sprint phone or call using the FBO phone. With a full fuel load out of Detroit, watch for wing frost on the upper wing surface after you refuel. You will need a ladder to detect frost since there is not enough light to safely see from the ground. Even with de-icing, we were airborne within +59 minutes. Tip: When you refuel, top off the aircraft using manual; we were able to bring our fuel load up to 24,800 lbs.
Our leg to Keflavik was via the “Blue Spruce” route: -LOACH 5850N 6140N 6330N EMBLA; without MNPS certification, we crossed at FL270 and M.75. This routing provided us with excellent VHF coverage and we had no problems communicating with Gander or Icelandic Radio. Weather in Keflavik was miserable with a mild temperature of 1°c, but ceilings below 1000 feet with rain/snow mix and winds gusting to 40 knots. No choices in alternates in Iceland, it’s basically Reykjavik which has short runways and comparable weather as Keflavik. Our handler in Keflavik was IGS Ground Services located at the airport terminal; we parked at Gate 2. No Customs call required. Again, because of the large volume of cold soaked fuel still in the wings, be careful of frost. Handling here is fast and efficient; while the airplane is being serviced, one pilot will need to travel with the handler to their office to pay for handling. Total time on the ground, with de-icing, was +63 minutes. Interesting, IGS had a ladder for us on this flight, but no ladder available on return??
Our last leg, we routed: -ALDAN RATSU UN610 NEW UL602 OTR UL90 DOLAS UL603 EVELI UL19 TULIP UL74 LARAS B31 WOODY, which complied with VHF requirements within Reykjavik and Scottish control, and FL270 complied with MNPS restrictions prior to RATSU, but after RATSU, notify Scottish that you are not equipped with 8.33 frequency spacing and you would like to remain at FL270 for as long as possible. (Note: You may be able to get higher, but don’t plan on it, flight plan for FL230 after RATSU just in case ATC enforces the FL245 restriction.) In our case, we remained at FL270 until about 150 miles from destination. The approaches into Woensdrecht are ILS-TACAN approaches to either 07 / 25, but just inform approach you are not TACAN equipped and request an alternate missed approach procedure. Expect radar vectors to final, matter-of-fact, we were radar vectored from about 200 miles out, and with good weather, we executed a visual approach to Runway 07. Lastly, the airport does not open before 0800 local (0700z), so plan accordingly.
Summary: KDTW-CYYR-BIKF-EHWO
Departed Detroit at 1515, arrived Woensdrecht at 0820 local
Flight time: 8h+44m and Duty: 13.7h
Woensdrecht to Detroit
All the restrictions that we encountered to get the airplane to Woensdrecht were still in effect for our return flight. We planned on a 0900 local departure which required about 1h+30m prep between fueling, Fokker Services requirements and Immigration requirements. Routing out of Woensdrecht to Keflavik: -NIK UA TOLEN UA5 EKROS UL980 XAMAN L980 LAM L10 BPK N601 TLA GOW A1D STN BARKU RATSU ALDAN VM R1 KEF. Initially we were filed FL220, but once airborne, we were radar vectored north, and once under control of London, we were able to climb to FL240 and finally FL280 for the remainder of the flight. Need to pick up Oceanic Clearance with Icelandic Radio prior to RATSU, no problems encountered with FL280 and M.75 for Oceanic flight; only us and a Continental at FL360 heading up towards Keflavik at that time of morning. Weather at Keflavik was 200 broken and several miles visibility in rain; winds gusting to 35 knots. Temperature was 8°c, we parked at Gate 4 this time and handling was quick. No Customs contact. 1h+06m ground time, some of this was spent going to “Duty Free”; waste of time.
Keflavik to Goose Bay is the most difficult leg to accomplish with winter winds and an alternate an hour south of Goose Bay. Even with fairly light winds, expect to use Long Range Cruise; we had stronger winds and lousily weather in Stephenville (200 – ½ mile) so, even with 24,500 lbs of fuel, we used PROF and MIN FUEL on this leg. Initial Mach was M.59, and we finally “coasted in” at M.55, but landed at Goose Bay with 8,800 lbs of fuel, and estimated 5,100 lbs at Stephenville. Weather at Goose Bay was clear skies, calm winds but temperature was -13°c. Routing was the reverse of the Goose Bay to Keflavik: -EMBLA 6330N 6140N 5850N LOACH YYR and we were able to get FL280, verses FL270 initially cleared. Landing at Goose Bay, we had APU starting problems; Irving had a “huffer” cart but it was unserviceable. CANPASS again, called from Keflavik to update arrival time. FYI; no refueling with an engine running! Even with the APU problem, ground time was a respectable 1h+15m.
Summary: EHWO-BIKF-CYYR-KDTW
Departed Woensdrecht at 0910 and arrived Detroit at 1645 local.
Flight: 10h+57m and Duty: 16.2h
Additional notes:
EXPERIENCE NOTES FROM FOKKER FERRY FLIGHT BETWEEN DETROIT AND WOENSDRECHT
These notes are from experiences encountered delivering xxxx to Woensdrecht for the Fokker 12-year inspection, the test flight after the inspection was completed, and then the return flight back to Detroit. The delivery flight occurred over the night of January 6, 2006, the test flight occurred on February 20, 2006 and the return flight on February 21. Management can speak of all the permits required to make this flight happen, but at the time of this flight, we needed relief from the AFM over water restriction and the European requirement for ATC Mode S transponder. The Fokker (Honeywell) FMS is not certified for MNPS airspace so the flight is limited to a maximum of FL280, with no HF radios, routing is restricted to “Blue Spruce” routing, and once within European airspace, without VHF 8.33 frequency spacing forces operation to below FL245.
Detroit to Woensdrecht:
Routing to Europe is pretty limited from Detroit; going through Goose Bay (CYYR) and Keflavik (BIKF) enroute to Woensdrecht (EHWO): -PISTN DXO020 ADRIE V450 ZR V308 YXU J586 YCF J588 YMX J546 UFX ML J553 PN J564 YR. Since we traveled in January, we expected very cold temperatures at Goose Bay but actually it was mild at 1°c. Our best alternate airport was Stephenville (CYJT), which is about 1 hour south of Goose Bay, and their weather and fuel supply can be a concern more than the weather at Goose Bay. In our case, it was VFR at both airports but Stephenville was rationing Jet B fuel on our night of travel. Our FBO at Goose Bay was Irving and they were very fast and efficient. Used CANPASS here for Canadian Customs, and you will be able to use your Sprint phone or call using the FBO phone. With a full fuel load out of Detroit, watch for wing frost on the upper wing surface after you refuel. You will need a ladder to detect frost since there is not enough light to safely see from the ground. Even with de-icing, we were airborne within +59 minutes. Tip: When you refuel, top off the aircraft using manual; we were able to bring our fuel load up to 24,800 lbs.
Our leg to Keflavik was via the “Blue Spruce” route: -LOACH 5850N 6140N 6330N EMBLA; without MNPS certification, we crossed at FL270 and M.75. This routing provided us with excellent VHF coverage and we had no problems communicating with Gander or Icelandic Radio. Weather in Keflavik was miserable with a mild temperature of 1°c, but ceilings below 1000 feet with rain/snow mix and winds gusting to 40 knots. No choices in alternates in Iceland, it’s basically Reykjavik which has short runways and comparable weather as Keflavik. Our handler in Keflavik was IGS Ground Services located at the airport terminal; we parked at Gate 2. No Customs call required. Again, because of the large volume of cold soaked fuel still in the wings, be careful of frost. Handling here is fast and efficient; while the airplane is being serviced, one pilot will need to travel with the handler to their office to pay for handling. Total time on the ground, with de-icing, was +63 minutes. Interesting, IGS had a ladder for us on this flight, but no ladder available on return??
Our last leg, we routed: -ALDAN RATSU UN610 NEW UL602 OTR UL90 DOLAS UL603 EVELI UL19 TULIP UL74 LARAS B31 WOODY, which complied with VHF requirements within Reykjavik and Scottish control, and FL270 complied with MNPS restrictions prior to RATSU, but after RATSU, notify Scottish that you are not equipped with 8.33 frequency spacing and you would like to remain at FL270 for as long as possible. (Note: You may be able to get higher, but don’t plan on it, flight plan for FL230 after RATSU just in case ATC enforces the FL245 restriction.) In our case, we remained at FL270 until about 150 miles from destination. The approaches into Woensdrecht are ILS-TACAN approaches to either 07 / 25, but just inform approach you are not TACAN equipped and request an alternate missed approach procedure. Expect radar vectors to final, matter-of-fact, we were radar vectored from about 200 miles out, and with good weather, we executed a visual approach to Runway 07. Lastly, the airport does not open before 0800 local (0700z), so plan accordingly.
Summary: KDTW-CYYR-BIKF-EHWO
Departed Detroit at 1515, arrived Woensdrecht at 0820 local
Flight time: 8h+44m and Duty: 13.7h
Woensdrecht to Detroit
All the restrictions that we encountered to get the airplane to Woensdrecht were still in effect for our return flight. We planned on a 0900 local departure which required about 1h+30m prep between fueling, Fokker Services requirements and Immigration requirements. Routing out of Woensdrecht to Keflavik: -NIK UA TOLEN UA5 EKROS UL980 XAMAN L980 LAM L10 BPK N601 TLA GOW A1D STN BARKU RATSU ALDAN VM R1 KEF. Initially we were filed FL220, but once airborne, we were radar vectored north, and once under control of London, we were able to climb to FL240 and finally FL280 for the remainder of the flight. Need to pick up Oceanic Clearance with Icelandic Radio prior to RATSU, no problems encountered with FL280 and M.75 for Oceanic flight; only us and a Continental at FL360 heading up towards Keflavik at that time of morning. Weather at Keflavik was 200 broken and several miles visibility in rain; winds gusting to 35 knots. Temperature was 8°c, we parked at Gate 4 this time and handling was quick. No Customs contact. 1h+06m ground time, some of this was spent going to “Duty Free”; waste of time.
Keflavik to Goose Bay is the most difficult leg to accomplish with winter winds and an alternate an hour south of Goose Bay. Even with fairly light winds, expect to use Long Range Cruise; we had stronger winds and lousily weather in Stephenville (200 – ½ mile) so, even with 24,500 lbs of fuel, we used PROF and MIN FUEL on this leg. Initial Mach was M.59, and we finally “coasted in” at M.55, but landed at Goose Bay with 8,800 lbs of fuel, and estimated 5,100 lbs at Stephenville. Weather at Goose Bay was clear skies, calm winds but temperature was -13°c. Routing was the reverse of the Goose Bay to Keflavik: -EMBLA 6330N 6140N 5850N LOACH YYR and we were able to get FL280, verses FL270 initially cleared. Landing at Goose Bay, we had APU starting problems; Irving had a “huffer” cart but it was unserviceable. CANPASS again, called from Keflavik to update arrival time. FYI; no refueling with an engine running! Even with the APU problem, ground time was a respectable 1h+15m.
Summary: EHWO-BIKF-CYYR-KDTW
Departed Woensdrecht at 0910 and arrived Detroit at 1645 local.
Flight: 10h+57m and Duty: 16.2h
Additional notes:
- Airport opens M – F, 0700z until 1645z, PPR through Stork Fokker Services.
- Approach charts faxed from Jeppesen and/or off the internet at www.cenor.org . Military airport so it’s not in our coverage.
- Carried a handheld VHF transceiver for backup.
- Purchased a portable Garmin GPS for backup. (Added European database)
- In Amsterdam, crew arranged hotel: stayed at the Marriott Courtyard Amsterdam Airport.
- In Bergen op Zoom, Maintenance arranged hotel: stayed at the Hotel de Draak.http://www.hoteldedraak.com/en/index2.htm
- No coverage by xxxx Dispatch on EHWO – BIKF leg.
- Flight Plans were produced many hours before actual departure, and they were incorrect on the two “International” legs requiring reruns and re-filing by crew. Internet access is a must have for proper weather briefings and flight planning!
- Catering out of Keflavik was marginal, at best, but not a lot of options. Stork Fokker Services provides some basic services, hotel an option.
- Mach number needs to be constantly updated on the BIKF – CYYR leg since we flew at MIN FUEL. M.59 slowing to M.55.
- Need “orange” trash bag for International trash on Detroit return. In our case, emptied trash in Goose Bay.
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