Europe to the US in a light jet

[belchfire]

Probably attend an international procedures school ASAP...and use Universal and/or Air Routing for handling.

Other than that, blue spruce routes? EINN-BIKF-BGBW-CYYR/CYYT/CYQX-northeast US

Good advice...

Start off by getting yourself a Jeppeson North Atlantic Orientation Chart and reading it and understanding it. Many pages of information and the basic requirements for flying the various routes...

 

[BoilerUP]

GEORGE! How the hell have you been man?

 

[belchfire]

Just living the dream...just living the dream.

Stuck in Newark, but one can still dream!

 

[fokkerjet]

Besides RVSM, you will also need to be MNPS approved (which it sounds like you're not). Here are my notes from a flight I made a couple of years ago, with a Fokker that was not MNPS certified....


EXPERIENCE NOTES FROM FOKKER FERRY FLIGHT BETWEEN DETROIT AND WOENSDRECHT

These notes are from experiences encountered delivering xxxx to Woensdrecht for the Fokker 12-year inspection, the test flight after the inspection was completed, and then the return flight back to Detroit. The delivery flight occurred over the night of January 6, 2006, the test flight occurred on February 20, 2006 and the return flight on February 21. Management can speak of all the permits required to make this flight happen, but at the time of this flight, we needed relief from the AFM over water restriction and the European requirement for ATC Mode S transponder. The Fokker (Honeywell) FMS is not certified for MNPS airspace so the flight is limited to a maximum of FL280, with no HF radios, routing is restricted to “Blue Spruce” routing, and once within European airspace, without VHF 8.33 frequency spacing forces operation to below FL245.

Detroit to Woensdrecht:

Routing to Europe is pretty limited from Detroit; going through Goose Bay (CYYR) and Keflavik (BIKF) enroute to Woensdrecht (EHWO): -PISTN DXO020 ADRIE V450 ZR V308 YXU J586 YCF J588 YMX J546 UFX ML J553 PN J564 YR. Since we traveled in January, we expected very cold temperatures at Goose Bay but actually it was mild at 1°c. Our best alternate airport was Stephenville (CYJT), which is about 1 hour south of Goose Bay, and their weather and fuel supply can be a concern more than the weather at Goose Bay. In our case, it was VFR at both airports but Stephenville was rationing Jet B fuel on our night of travel. Our FBO at Goose Bay was Irving and they were very fast and efficient. Used CANPASS here for Canadian Customs, and you will be able to use your Sprint phone or call using the FBO phone. With a full fuel load out of Detroit, watch for wing frost on the upper wing surface after you refuel. You will need a ladder to detect frost since there is not enough light to safely see from the ground. Even with de-icing, we were airborne within +59 minutes. Tip: When you refuel, top off the aircraft using manual; we were able to bring our fuel load up to 24,800 lbs.

Our leg to Keflavik was via the “Blue Spruce” route: -LOACH 5850N 6140N 6330N EMBLA; without MNPS certification, we crossed at FL270 and M.75. This routing provided us with excellent VHF coverage and we had no problems communicating with Gander or Icelandic Radio. Weather in Keflavik was miserable with a mild temperature of 1°c, but ceilings below 1000 feet with rain/snow mix and winds gusting to 40 knots. No choices in alternates in Iceland, it’s basically Reykjavik which has short runways and comparable weather as Keflavik. Our handler in Keflavik was IGS Ground Services located at the airport terminal; we parked at Gate 2. No Customs call required. Again, because of the large volume of cold soaked fuel still in the wings, be careful of frost. Handling here is fast and efficient; while the airplane is being serviced, one pilot will need to travel with the handler to their office to pay for handling. Total time on the ground, with de-icing, was +63 minutes. Interesting, IGS had a ladder for us on this flight, but no ladder available on return??

Our last leg, we routed: -ALDAN RATSU UN610 NEW UL602 OTR UL90 DOLAS UL603 EVELI UL19 TULIP UL74 LARAS B31 WOODY, which complied with VHF requirements within Reykjavik and Scottish control, and FL270 complied with MNPS restrictions prior to RATSU, but after RATSU, notify Scottish that you are not equipped with 8.33 frequency spacing and you would like to remain at FL270 for as long as possible. (Note: You may be able to get higher, but don’t plan on it, flight plan for FL230 after RATSU just in case ATC enforces the FL245 restriction.) In our case, we remained at FL270 until about 150 miles from destination. The approaches into Woensdrecht are ILS-TACAN approaches to either 07 / 25, but just inform approach you are not TACAN equipped and request an alternate missed approach procedure. Expect radar vectors to final, matter-of-fact, we were radar vectored from about 200 miles out, and with good weather, we executed a visual approach to Runway 07. Lastly, the airport does not open before 0800 local (0700z), so plan accordingly.



Summary: KDTW-CYYR-BIKF-EHWO
Departed Detroit at 1515, arrived Woensdrecht at 0820 local
Flight time: 8h+44m and Duty: 13.7h



Woensdrecht to Detroit

All the restrictions that we encountered to get the airplane to Woensdrecht were still in effect for our return flight. We planned on a 0900 local departure which required about 1h+30m prep between fueling, Fokker Services requirements and Immigration requirements. Routing out of Woensdrecht to Keflavik: -NIK UA TOLEN UA5 EKROS UL980 XAMAN L980 LAM L10 BPK N601 TLA GOW A1D STN BARKU RATSU ALDAN VM R1 KEF. Initially we were filed FL220, but once airborne, we were radar vectored north, and once under control of London, we were able to climb to FL240 and finally FL280 for the remainder of the flight. Need to pick up Oceanic Clearance with Icelandic Radio prior to RATSU, no problems encountered with FL280 and M.75 for Oceanic flight; only us and a Continental at FL360 heading up towards Keflavik at that time of morning. Weather at Keflavik was 200 broken and several miles visibility in rain; winds gusting to 35 knots. Temperature was 8°c, we parked at Gate 4 this time and handling was quick. No Customs contact. 1h+06m ground time, some of this was spent going to “Duty Free”; waste of time.

Keflavik to Goose Bay is the most difficult leg to accomplish with winter winds and an alternate an hour south of Goose Bay. Even with fairly light winds, expect to use Long Range Cruise; we had stronger winds and lousily weather in Stephenville (200 – ½ mile) so, even with 24,500 lbs of fuel, we used PROF and MIN FUEL on this leg. Initial Mach was M.59, and we finally “coasted in” at M.55, but landed at Goose Bay with 8,800 lbs of fuel, and estimated 5,100 lbs at Stephenville. Weather at Goose Bay was clear skies, calm winds but temperature was -13°c. Routing was the reverse of the Goose Bay to Keflavik: -EMBLA 6330N 6140N 5850N LOACH YYR and we were able to get FL280, verses FL270 initially cleared. Landing at Goose Bay, we had APU starting problems; Irving had a “huffer” cart but it was unserviceable. CANPASS again, called from Keflavik to update arrival time. FYI; no refueling with an engine running! Even with the APU problem, ground time was a respectable 1h+15m.



Summary: EHWO-BIKF-CYYR-KDTW
Departed Woensdrecht at 0910 and arrived Detroit at 1645 local.
Flight: 10h+57m and Duty: 16.2h

Additional notes:

• Airport opens M – F, 0700z until 1645z, PPR through Stork Fokker Services.
• Approach charts faxed from Jeppesen and/or off the internet at www.cenor.org . Military airport so it’s not in our coverage.
• Carried a handheld VHF transceiver for backup.
• Purchased a portable Garmin GPS for backup. (Added European database)
• In Amsterdam, crew arranged hotel: stayed at the Marriott Courtyard Amsterdam Airport.
• In Bergen op Zoom, Maintenance arranged hotel: stayed at the Hotel de Draak.http://www.hoteldedraak.com/en/index2.htm
• No coverage by xxxx Dispatch on EHWO – BIKF leg.
• Flight Plans were produced many hours before actual departure, and they were incorrect on the two “International” legs requiring reruns and re-filing by crew. Internet access is a must have for proper weather briefings and flight planning!
• Catering out of Keflavik was marginal, at best, but not a lot of options. Stork Fokker Services provides some basic services, hotel an option.
• Mach number needs to be constantly updated on the BIKF – CYYR leg since we flew at MIN FUEL. M.59 slowing to M.55.
• Need “orange” trash bag for International trash on Detroit return. In our case, emptied trash in Goose Bay.

 

[Beechjetr]

Call Rick at Global Trip Support
866-995-5656

Lifesaver...

 

[gulfstream2345]

Have done the trip a number of times in a Citation 500 (yuck). Shannon to Iceland to Sonderstrom to Frobisher Bay and onward. Depends on where in the US the final destination is. Sonderstrom to Goose/Gander if it is east of the Mississipi. Frobisher if west of the Mississippi. Avoid Narsarsuaq if possible. I would certainly have Universal Weather take care of the flight planning for you.

 

[cl300dave]

A good start are these documents http://www.nat-pco.org/mnpsa.htm and
http://www.nat-pco.org/nat/CurrentNAT IGA.pdf

 

[Fly91]

Gentleman,

I may have a trip coming up to pick up a stranded N registered CE-550 in the EU and bring it home to the States.

The airplane has a single FMS, Collins Pro Line II 3 tube EFIS, dual VHF, NO HF radios.

Any and all recommendations or advise for operating the airplane one way from Europe to the States? Visas, flight planning, regulatory requirements, etc.? I'm going to have to do my homework on this one and figured that you could all help me get started.

Thanks,
CK

Nothing wrong with sitting through an international class.

But its a cake-walk. You're not flying tracks which makes it just like you do in the states, nothing at all that you've never done before. File int'l flight plans just like you do when going to the Bahamas, Central and South America. Its actually very nice and easy going. No HF needed. All good English speaking all the way across. No rules that you already do not know. Go to Narsarsuaq in Greenland if the weather is good, no need to go all the way up north.

Bringing a Lear 60 back from Germany in a couple weeks. Its fun flying.

.

 

[surplus1]

Planning is key to everything you do.

I don't know your airplane but do know that fuel will be a major consideration - you can never have too much. There really are no "alternates" in Iceland or Greenland, so keep that in mind. Even when its CAVU - somebody else's broken airplane in the middle of a single runway can become a problem. If you use a planning service, double check their flight plans - they're not always perfect. Trust but verify.

Weather. Know the weather on the day you fly and don't push your luck; the North Atlantic can get really nasty. It's better to wait for good weather - even if it takes a few days of delay. Iceland is very windy on the surface most of the time and there's no big choice of runways - expect strong crosswinds for landing. Wherever you choose to go in Greenland, again, WX is the key. There are no alternates per se, and only one runway - so know what you're going to do before you have to do it (if for some reason you can't land on schedule), and to be safe (in Greenland), you really need good VFR weather on arrival. At Narsarsuaq you can't go around. It's fine - but you must have good weather once you go into the fjord (its too narrow to turn around safely). You should do this crossing in the daytime - and if possible clear of cloud most of the way. Keep it simple for the first time.

European airspace is not difficult but some rules are different. Be aware of transition altitudes and transition levels before you go - they're not like the US. Understand QNH and QNE. Read up on that stuff and know it. Europeans have a different concept of "radar contact" - be aware of position reporting requirements. If you can take the course it's helpful but it is not a must if you do your homework.

[Assuming the a/c is not equipped] If you can get a portable GPS take the advice of the Fokker pilot and do it. It's nice to actually know where you are. Even on the northern route the ocean is still big. Some good survival equipment is not a bad idea, but having to put the airplane in the water for any reason will not be promising even with it. Good planning will prevent that. Should you lose and engine, know your opitions before it happens, from any point along your route.

Goose Bay is OK but I prefer Gander for the first NA arrival. Call it personal preference.

I've done this crossing in a lot less airplane (as well as a lot more airplane) than you will have and before there was any GPS, so it's not going to be difficult - if you do your homework, plan thoroughly (including the what ifs), know the weather in depth, and pay attention - you'll enjoy the experience.

Best of luck and have a nice flight.

 

[SCT]

Is the reg for MNPS airpspace, that the PIC has to have training (international ops) with in 24 months? If so, does it have to be a formalized Flight Safety type course or can it be an in house? Also, what does the SIC need to be legal?

Thank you-

 

[Guitar rocker]

Is the reg for MNPS airpspace, that the PIC has to have training (international ops) with in 24 months? If so, does it have to be a formalized Flight Safety type course or can it be an in house? Also, what does the SIC need to be legal?

Thank you-

Did some trips to Europe and I was thinking that its a requirement that both pilots have attended or completed a formal international procedures class. I might be wrong there....anyway, the FSI international procedures class in Wichita is good. Good guy that teaches it as well.

 

[westwind driver]

Have done the trip a number of times in a Citation 500 (yuck). Shannon to Iceland to Sonderstrom to Frobisher Bay and onward. Depends on where in the US the final destination is. Sonderstrom to Goose/Gander if it is east of the Mississipi. Frobisher if west of the Mississippi. Avoid Narsarsuaq if possible. I would certainly have Universal Weather take care of the flight planning for you.

We returned a westwind in 2005 from Hannover, DE

Used the same/similar route. We had 8.33 spacing though so we could go up to FL280 (non-rvsm)

Hannover - Edinburg - Keflavik - Sondrestrom Fjord - Frobisher/Iqaluit - Bangor - Charlotte - Atlanta

Total flight time: 12.3 hrs.
Date: April 1, 2005