ERJ XJT PBS Questions

[sweptback]

Since you brought it up, I read through all the MOUs. The first 20 or so were implementation documents from the 2007 contract. Some of those simply laid out a timeline of when the contract improvements would be implemented and how. Others further defined the terms of the contract too make sure we captured intent and to mitigate future grievances. There are others that later improved our contract. There are others that helped support our bidding system documentation. Others that laid out how our PBS system would be implemented and requirements of the performance before we would go live. A few that provided protection for some of our pilots that took leaves to fly for a venture in Viet Nam. One or more that deal with ASAP implementation and operation. Some others that memorialized issues that were not covered in the contract. But, overall, these documents help strengthen our contract and capture new practices and policies that arise after the contract is signed. I am not a lawyer, but I would guess that the more documentation you have to protect your work rules and pay, and in some cases actually improve on what you already have is a very good thing. That is why there are so many.

What raises the issue for you?

In short, you never pass up an opportunity to improve your contract.

The question should be, why does the XJT contract not have 80+ MOUs?

 

[79%N1]

Seriously, you work 8 hrs and get paid 4hrs?
Did you actually agree to that BS!

I thought you had to be smart and educated to be a pilot, but you take half pay for your work. Does the CEO do that too?

Do you get paid for every hour of duty time? Do you get paid 3 hrs when you have a 3 hr airport sit between legs? No? Did you actually agree to that BS? You take no pay for that work? I bet you have days where you sit at the airport for 4 hrs, and you get no pay.

If a RR gets called to fly, he gets paid 100% of what he flies.

That said, I hope and believe they will go with the 4 hrs RR for 4 hrs pay. This will just require more people on RR each day, and for the individual to sit more days of RR each month. Pick your poison.

 

[Nevets]

Speedtape

You are making many assumptions. First of all realize that our MEC has researched all of this. They have figured that this is the only PBS which will be able to maintain the same QOL which we already enjoy under our line bidding. Therefore it's either that or our line bidding. I'm ok with staying under our line bidding and I'm guessing that most of our pilots and your pilots are ok with us staying under that system as well. With that said, the effects of globalization can be mitigated. So much so that lucky lineholders can all but be eliminated. I mentioned two methods, one of which I would want in order to keep the same QOL I enjoy now. Remember, like many of you guys say in defending some of the supposed shortcomings of your PBS, it's about the work rules.

The question should be, why does the XJT contract not have 80+ MOUs?

That logic doesn't make sense seeing that the XJT contract is way superior to the ASA contract.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Do you get paid for every hour of duty time? Do you get paid 3 hrs when you have a 3 hr airport sit between legs? No? Did you actually agree to that BS? You take no pay for that work? I bet you have days where you sit at the airport for 4 hrs, and you get no pay.

If a RR gets called to fly, he gets paid 100% of what he flies.

That said, I hope and believe they will go with the 4 hrs RR for 4 hrs pay. This will just require more people on RR each day, and for the individual to sit more days of RR each month. Pick your poison.

Why wouldn't you get paid what you fly ??? Why would you need more people on RR ?

 

[dojetdriver]

Speedtape, Nevets has the same debate I do over the systems. I'll only add that the "bottom 35%", or where ever the constraint line falls are important. However, it spurns a back pedaling agreement by some of the CRJ people on here. Many CRJ people believe that ERJ people "don't care about seniority". Well, how do those folks want the argument? Being below the contraint line simply means one is junior, doesn't matter which system it is. Being junior has ALWAYS sucked. And the standard point applies, under the XJT line bid, a junior pilot who didn't get what they want has the opportunity to fix that. Under ANY PBS system, that just simply doesn't exist. In other words, if a pilot gets unstacked there's not much, if anything that can be done.

Speedtape

You are making many assumptions. First of all realize that our MEC has researched all of this. They have figured that this is the only PBS which will be able to maintain the same QOL which we already enjoy under our line bidding. Therefore it's either that or our line bidding. I'm ok with staying under our line bidding and I'm guessing that most of our pilots and your pilots are ok with us staying under that system as well. With that said, the effects of globalization can be mitigated. So much so that lucky lineholders can all but be eliminated. I mentioned two methods, one of which I would want in order to keep the same QOL I enjoy now. Remember, like many of you guys say in defending some of the supposed shortcomings of your PBS, it's about the work rules.

1. You might want to get the facts first because the ones your stating are incorrect.

OK, but I did put the the "care to dispute the information from CRJ pilots" in my post for a reason. You're NOT paying attention. So you are contesting what they have said? Are you saying that unstack has NEVER been used?

2. You have continued to try to convince ASA pilots that this PBS program is the best out there. ASA already has a PBS program.

Maybe you should get your facts straight. I'm NOT doing anything of the sort. Simply stating that the smartpref is better aligned with the XJT CBA, the flightline system isn't.

3. As for the executive session, I really have no idea what you are talking about. That's over my pay grade but it sounds like it's keeping you up at night. You might want to have that looked at. It could get worst as you get older.

Well maybe you should pay a little attention. Because an ASA MEC member blabbing and breaking the standard agreement is what started this whole thing in the first place. The downline affects could have greater consequences. As in, if the individual can't be trusted, who's to say they won't blab something to management if it strikes them? Does that make sense to you, is that something you can understand why people shouldn't break and agreement? Because if it doesn't, maybe you should spend more time at night thinking about it.

Oh I forgot one thing....you never did answer the questions.

You're NOT paying attention and ONLY seeing/reading what you want to. Work on your reading comprehension skills.

The question should be, why does the XJT contract not have 80+ MOUs?

Maybe because the original 04 document DIDN'T contain as much weak/ambiguous language as the contract 07 at ASA. Hence not needing as much LOA/MOU modification.

 

[79%N1]

Why wouldn't you get paid what you fly ??? Why would you need more people on RR ?

You are kidding, right????

Now, instead of one person on a RR shift of 8-4, you have one guy from 8-Noon, and another from noon-4pm. Thats two separate guys to serve one 8 hour period.

And probably instead of maybe one 8 hour RR shift per week, you would probably need to sit two, 4 hour shifts....unless of course they hire more people! (Hahahahah)

 

[dojetdriver]

You are kidding, right????

Now, instead of one person on a RR shift of 8-4, you have one guy from 8-Noon, and another from noon-4pm. Thats two separate guys to serve one 8 hour period.

Guess it depends on your perspective as far as junior pilots are concerned. Are you like me and speedtape in this thread and are just as concerned with seniority as well as juniority? As in, are you concerned with keeping as many pilots on the list as possible without downgrading/furloughing? Or are you in the camp of "f the junior guys"?

Would you rather sit 8 mind numbing hours at the airport, or just 4?

And probably instead of maybe one 8 hour RR shift per week, you would probably need to sit two, 4 hour shifts....unless of course they hire more people! (Hahahahah)

Possibly, but XJT can't sit two consecutive RR's, can't do RR on the last day of a block or reserve, can't be assigned RR more than 6 times in an bid period, etc.

 

[DHPFLYN]

You are kidding, right????

Now, instead of one person on a RR shift of 8-4, you have one guy from 8-Noon, and another from noon-4pm. Thats two separate guys to serve one 8 hour period.

And probably instead of maybe one 8 hour RR shift per week, you would probably need to sit two, 4 hour shifts....unless of course they hire more people! (Hahahahah)

I guess you need alot better contract language. I really hope this isn't true but I was just told they can assign you something after your call out time is over? please tell me that isn't true.

Also hear you can can reassigned over ACARS?

 

[dojetdriver]

I guess you need alot better contract language. I really hope this isn't true but I was just told they can assign you something after your call out time is over? please tell me that isn't true.

They can do the same to us, assuming they called, released you and gave the appropriate domicile rest before starting the assignment that was outside the original callout time. If you're talking about how long they're on the hook when finishing and assignment while on reserve, assuming there's hasn't been an LOA/MOU that changed it;

(3) A short-call reserve pilot may, if he is not released, be required to remain at the airport for up to one (1) hour from his normal release time for the purpose of accepting further assignment.

If such assignment is scheduled to begin more than three (3) hours from the end of that one (1) hour period, and the pilot is required to remain at the airport, such assignment will count as a ready reserve assignment. If such pilot is assigned ready reserve, his ready reserve assignment will be deemed to have begun at the completion of his original flight assignment.
If he is not given an assignment within one (1) hour, he will be permitted to leave the airport and remain on-call and on duty, though not earning per diem, or be released into domicile rest pursuant to Section 12.D.3.a.

 

[OCP]

I guess you need alot better contract language. I really hope this isn't true but I was just told they can assign you something after your call out time is over? please tell me that isn't true.

Also hear you can can reassigned over ACARS?

If by call out time you mean reserve period then there are a few answers. If your time is over and you are stupid enough to answer your phone they could give you something the next day, after your min rest. You are not in any way obligated to answer your phone after the end of the reserve period.

And yes they can notify of a change/extension over ACARS. This is a shining example of a MASSIVE failure by our union. There are a bunch of limitations as to when they can actually try this, but bottom line they still can.

 

[OCP]

As far as the junior 35% or whatever the number having no control over what they get, that is BS. ASA PBS does not do this. I've talked about the schedules I get often and I'll relay the one I have next month. I think I'm about number 305 out of about 407 pilots in ATL CRJ200 CA. I got even better than I though I was going to get. My first bid sheet has my "dream" bid, 2nd has a more realistic bid, and 3rd has just about anything before reserve. I got a month from my first bid sheet.
3 on 4 off all month. I will work 12 days next month. Blocked to 68 hrs paid at 75. If we had longer stage lengths on the 200 I probably could have had more credit.
I didn't get exactly what I wanted, because I wanted some weekend off. I did get the last 6 days of the month off that includes a saturday, which I can predictably get the first few days off of next month and give my self a weekend. NO INTEGRATION!

 

[Texx]

Speedtape, Nevets has the same debate I do over the systems. I'll only add that the "bottom 35%", or where ever the constraint line falls are important. However, it spurns a back pedaling agreement by some of the CRJ people on here. Many CRJ people believe that ERJ people "don't care about seniority". Well, how do those folks want the argument? Being below the contraint line simply means one is junior, doesn't matter which system it is. Being junior has ALWAYS sucked. And the standard point applies, under the XJT line bid, a junior pilot who didn't get what they want has the opportunity to fix that. Under ANY PBS system, that just simply doesn't exist. In other words, if a pilot gets unstacked there's not much, if anything that can be done.




OK, but I did put the the "care to dispute the information from CRJ pilots" in my post for a reason. You're NOT paying attention. So you are contesting what they have said? Are you saying that unstack has NEVER been used?



Maybe you should get your facts straight. I'm NOT doing anything of the sort. Simply stating that the smartpref is better aligned with the XJT CBA, the flightline system isn't.



Well maybe you should pay a little attention. Because an ASA MEC member blabbing and breaking the standard agreement is what started this whole thing in the first place. The downline affects could have greater consequences. As in, if the individual can't be trusted, who's to say they won't blab something to management if it strikes them? Does that make sense to you, is that something you can understand why people shouldn't break and agreement? Because if it doesn't, maybe you should spend more time at night thinking about it.



You're NOT paying attention and ONLY seeing/reading what you want to. Work on your reading comprehension skills.



Maybe because the original 04 document DIDN'T contain as much weak/ambiguous language as the contract 07 at ASA. Hence not needing as much LOA/MOU modification.

Dude, get a life! You don't know everything and the world does not revolve around you. If you haven't figured out the people at the top will do 1 of 2 things.

1. Tell you what YOU want to hear and
2. Tell you what THEY want you to hear.

The truth is in the middle.

 

[Nevets]

As far as the junior 35% or whatever the number having no control over what they get, that is BS. ASA PBS does not do this.

It's about work rules right? Work rules can mitigate any of this.

 

[asayankee]

So you say Flightline PBS doesn't honor seniority enough because 4 or 5 guys might get a line in a vacation month but you are willing to sell out 35% of your CA's and 35% of your FO's under the constraint line to be "globalized" at the whim of a computer controlled by management???

I'm confused.

 

[sweptback]

So you say Flightline PBS doesn't honor seniority enough because 4 or 5 guys might get a line in a vacation month but you are willing to sell out 35% of your CA's and 35% of your FO's under the constraint line to be "globalized" at the whim of a computer controlled by management???

I'm confused.

The XJT guys don't understand PBS and assume that the ASA system is terrible, just because. So they're grasping at straws to prove that their "system" is better. It's not.