Entering a spin from a power-off stall???

[nosehair]

Obviously I am very ill-advised on the subject and the sooner I can leave this profession the better as I am obviously dilluting the talent pool with unqualified pilots.

What?'re gonna pick up your ball and go home, now?

No one meant you any harm or disrespect, Sir.

We're just slappin' you around some for talking disrespectful to a student, OK?

Maybe you dint say it actually to him, but you said it in your post. dis aint high school.

 

[WestHouston]

CFICare has hit the nail on the head. You don't like the answers you were given. You have a bad attitude, like most of the "Mommy says I'm special" kids entering the adult-era of their lives these days.

You sound like a big vag1na with all that whining............

Right. It's amazing that you can tell all of that from one comment. The student happens to be a personal friend of mine that I've known for a long time and is a very capable pilot. But I'm sure you knew that. I asked the question about how the aircraft got into the spin, because like you pointed out, I'm not "experienced" enough. I wanted to be able to explain it to students and other instructors. Several posters responded and did offer helpful information. Then a few decided to take one comment, out of context, and tell me I'm an unprofessional whiner. Right... well I'm very impressed by your professionalism as well. Lol, looks like I'm on the losing end of this one though. Consider me "humbled"....

 

[WestHouston]

Okay,

You asked a question about something that you ought to know more about than you apparently do, as a CFI instructing others. That's okay. No new CFI is an expert on everything upon passing the checkride. You learn the most on the job while instructing, and while talking with other instructors. You should find the weak points in your understanding of subjects and strengthen them for the benefit of yourself and your students.

None of us ever claimed or insinuated that we "know everything." You asked for help, we answered and pointed you toward good resources to help. You are a new instructor and you are asking people with years of experience. If you choose to disregard what everyone had said, you certainly have that option.

However as professional pilots, the attitude we should have is to continually be learning and adding to our knowledge. Likewise we share what we know with others so that they can learn. Now you can take the information and resources that we pointed out to you and educate yourself further on the topic, or you can decide that none of us has a clue and that you know all you need to.

Just realize that part of your lack of understanding of the subject seems to be caused by the fact that you disagree with the answers.

???
I don't believe I disagreed with any of the answers I was given about how the airplane spun. This thread was going quite well until someone decided to throw in a cheap shot about my professionalism. Sorry everyone thinks I'm "whining".

 

[CFIcare]

I'll try again. A spin occurs after reaching the criticial angle of attack, wherein one wing is stalled more than the other wing, due to a state of uncoordinated flight at the point of the stall. This agitated state induces a spin, with an axis very close to the center of gravity.

If you have a perfectly rigged, perfectly trim tabbed airplane, and perfect coordination with calm wind, you ought to get a power off stall, then if you hold the yoke in your lap and keep perfect coordination, it will bob around, maybe tail slide a little, but will not spin unless something agitates the stalled condition.

I'm guessing you, like everyone else are not perfect in technique, nor do you have a perfectly rigged flight school airplane. Under power off stalled conditions, attempting to stay coordinated best you can, it is not unusual to get a wing drop. If you continue to hold the yoke back and not recover, it may continue to spin. This is regardless of where the ball is. An airplane with a bent rudder trim tab, bent airframe, slightly asymmetrical aileron rig/flaps will respond to that added drag.

I've flown airplanes that you stall with the ball centered and they stall wings level straight ahead. I've flown others that will spin smartly to the left unless you keep the ball 1/2 out of the box! The physics behind it say, all things being as the engineers intended, a coordinated airplane in a stall can't spin.

Some of the aerobatic acts demonstrate this well in their tail slide and falling leaf stalls. It can't start to spin unless a flight control in the airstream aggrivates the stall.

In an aside note, I never called you a whiner. I said you needed more experience on the subject. Accepting your weaknesses and trying to improve on them is part of professionalism. Making statements like:
"Obviously I am very ill-advised on the subject and the sooner I can leave this profession the better as I am obviously dilluting the talent pool with unqualified pilots."

....these statements do not help you at all. Seriously, you've got to be a bit tougher than this, if you are getting riled up by comments on a message board. People were responding to the attitude they percieved. Re-read your own posts and think about how your words came across.

CFIcare

 

[WestHouston]

I'll try again. A spin occurs after reaching the criticial angle of attack, wherein one wing is stalled more than the other wing, due to a state of uncoordinated flight at the point of the stall. This agitated state induces a spin, with an axis very close to the center of gravity.

If you have a perfectly rigged, perfectly trim tabbed airplane, and perfect coordination with calm wind, you ought to get a power off stall, then if you hold the yoke in your lap and keep perfect coordination, it will bob around, maybe tail slide a little, but will not spin unless something agitates the stalled condition.

I'm guessing you, like everyone else are not perfect in technique, nor do you have a perfectly rigged flight school airplane. Under power off stalled conditions, attempting to stay coordinated best you can, it is not unusual to get a wing drop. If you continue to hold the yoke back and not recover, it may continue to spin. This is regardless of where the ball is. An airplane with a bent rudder trim tab, bent airframe, slightly asymmetrical aileron rig/flaps will respond to that added drag.

I've flown airplanes that you stall with the ball centered and they stall wings level straight ahead. I've flown others that will spin smartly to the left unless you keep the ball 1/2 out of the box! The physics behind it say, all things being as the engineers intended, a coordinated airplane in a stall can't spin.

Some of the aerobatic acts demonstrate this well in their tail slide and falling leaf stalls. It can't start to spin unless a flight control in the airstream aggrivates the stall.

In an aside note, I never called you a whiner. I said you needed more experience on the subject. Accepting your weaknesses and trying to improve on them is part of professionalism. Making statements like:
"Obviously I am very ill-advised on the subject and the sooner I can leave this profession the better as I am obviously dilluting the talent pool with unqualified pilots."

....these statements do not help you at all. Seriously, you've got to be a bit tougher than this, if you are getting riled up by comments on a message board. People were responding to the attitude they percieved. Re-read your own posts and think about how your words came across.

CFIcare

Fair enough. Thanks. Just got irritated.

 

[CFIcare]

Understood, no worries.

As a CFI, I was irritated more often than not.

Fly safe...

 

[Flyer1015]

I tell the student "how the hell do you get into a spin from a power off stall?" So I take the controls to demonstrate the proper technique. IT HAPPENS AGAIN!

Good job! You made yourself look like a total fool to your girl student pilot.

I can tell you right now if I was getting my PPL, and my instructor yelled at me "how the hell did I do.......[insert whatever]", it would be time for me to get a new instructor.

 

[nosehair]

I can tell you right now if I was getting my PPL, and my instructor yelled at me "how the hell did I do.......[insert whatever]", it would be time for me to get a new instructor.

I think he's explained it, already.

One of the problems with reading the word is not being able to hear enuciation.

If it was with a friend, and the tone was as if he were asking himself out loud, then, it takes on a totally different meaning, and I think that was the way he intended that comment.