Enlighten me on ALPA

[Otto77]

Hey all,
Ive been a lurker on this board for years. I have been especially interested in the latest strikes and union dealings. With all the drama revolving around ALPA, AMFA etc..has led me to pose the question. What is the point of being an ALPA member now days? Its been called a lame duck organization on here by many and Im curious to the real benefit of being an ALPA member and why if I were an airline pilot would it be beneficial for me to join and pay dues? I've always been a recreational pilot and do not mean to stir up hate replies..but I just want to be more educated on the matter. Thanks for all serious replies in advance.

 

[TonyC]

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1

Aircraft Experience: Tons
Flight Experience: A mix
Ratings: Pretty much all of them
Total Time: 10

FLAMEBAIT​

 

[Otto77]

Tony C,
Like Ive said..i just joined the board after lurking for a long time. Ive read some of your other posts and agree with what you have said. Im just looking for a good discussion here.

 

[TWA Dude]

It's simple, really, ALPA is a flawed organization but pilots need union protection. If something truly better comes along I'm all for it but I don't consider that likely.

 

[Otto77]

I understand the protection and I feel that they are a good organization for fighting for medical conditions etc..but overall the main concern I would want is for wage protection ..but I guess you are right..nothing is perfect.

 

[psycho]

Steenland, is that you?? give us a call at the Lorenzo alumni club. Frank wants to know what you are up to.

 

[Otto77]

who is Steenland?

 

[enigma]

who is Steenland?

Busted!!!!!!!!!!!

If you were truly a lurker, you wouldn't be asking this question as a follow up to your ALPA question.

But, I'll play your silly game. ALPA is what you make it. If you, and your fellow members of the rank and file blow off your union, then your union will be corrupt, weak and ineffective. If you take part, attend meetings, vote, volunteer, etc, your union will be very effective.

My experience has been this: the whiners don't vote, don't attend local meetings, don't volunteer and don't offer anything. They just carp and complain. I'm no union fan, but this is a unionized business and I found out long ago that going along and working within a system is the effective way to succeed.

Now, go to your next LEC meeting and find something positive to accomplish.

enigma

 

[Otto77]

Enigma,
Great point. A great example is how people love to Bitch about the gov't but they arent willing to do anything about it..but everyone has their opinions. I know the unions will never go away in this industry and that is probably a good thing..I would just like to see them have a little bit more power.

 

[PCL_128]

My experience has been this: the whiners don't vote, don't attend local meetings, don't volunteer and don't offer anything. They just carp and complain.

Exactly. It goes even further than that though. Many of the whiners also like to yell about how they could do such a better job if the union leadership would just allow them to volunteer. When they are offered that chance to volunteer their time and effort, they come up with a long list of excuses of why they can't volunteer right now.

I've said it on our company board before, and I'll say it again: If we came to the pilot group tomorrow with an LOA for 50% pay raises and 20 days off a month, the group of malcontents would still be complaining about how we didn't get them 100% raises and 25 days off. Some people just like to complain no matter what.

 

[Huck]

1. The basis of all employee/employer relations in this country is contractual. NOTHING else really matters in the long term.

2. A required component of a legal contract is equal STANDING. Either party must be able to enforce the document, or it is coercive.

3. There's only one company, so there can only be one entity on the other side. Fedex can't write 4500 individual pilot contracts (though interestingly this is being tried at Jetblue I hear....) Therefore there is representation.

4. The bottom line: it's all PERSONALITY. Like any organization - a company, the military, your church, the scouts, the neighborhood watch - most everything depends on who you put in charge. Anybody who b!tches about DW: did you vote in your last ALPA election? Do you go to meetings?

 

[pianoman]

Just because a pilot group votes in concessions doesn't mean a union is ineffective. Many pilots don't see that if there were no union at all, the company could just unilaterally whack pay rates. Granted, bankruptcy makes it harder, but at least the company has to negotiate with us as to what form, if any, concessions will take.

I agree safety is probably the most important job of the union, however; not being afraid that taking the safest course of action (i.e. refusing a flight for mx or wx) will result in the loss of a job or discipline.

The whole point of many union committees is to keep pilots' problems in-house rather than get mgmt involved. Committees such as Professional Standards (I hate the guy I'm flying with please make him change), Jump Seat (may I have a ride with your airline), Peer Pilot Assistance (hand me that beer would you), and others all ensure that pilots are getting the best help possible; help from our peers.

 

[Otto77]

pianoman,
All good points that I forgot to consider. I think as far as on the job help the union is great for that.

 

[100LL... Again!]

The unions have overplayed their hand in many instances, and that is why they are in such trouble.