End ALPA - Begin War

[PCL_128]

To paraphrase Mark Twain, rumors of ALPA's demise are greatly exaggerated. With or without the AAA crybabies, ALPA will be just fine. It would simply be a lot stronger with them. We are better off together than separate.

 

[SaturnPilot]

ALPA is neither a republic or a democracy. It is an oligarchy run by the five largest MECs which masquerades as a democracy.

If ALPA's value to the piloting profession were obvious, a few disgruntled comments on an anonymous web board wouldn't raise much of a stir.

That the sycophants on here are defending ALPA so vigorously seems to acknowledge the fact that the legacy MECs have screwed this association up so badly that its future as a viable entity is in serious question.

In other words, they wouldn't be sqeaking so loudly in ALPA's defense if they didn't wonder themselves.

very informative post...

I'm not on here to speak loudly in ALPA's defense. If there is a better alternative to ALPA, I'm all for it. I just haven't heard one single workable detailed solution to the "ALPA problem"...just a bunch of extremely general rants about some issue with absolutely no facts to support it.

Sounds like you have a problem with being allied with the legacy MECs. Do you advocate then for all airlines to have only independent unions? Do you believe that as 40 something independents we will be as effective?

 

[PCL_128]

SaturnPilot, just for a heads up, N2264J is another RJDC wanker. Just another loser like Joey. He has no solutions or constructive dialog, just whining and pseudo-facts that he spreads as gospel.

 

[N2264J]

...just for a heads up...

PCL_128 abandoned his pilot group as an ALPA status rep. in the middle of contract negotitations to take a job at a non ALPA carrier.

Then he comes on here talking about how great ALPA is and apparently sees no inconsistency in his own prattle.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL_128 abandoned his pilot group as an ALPA status rep. in the middle of contract negotitations to take a job at a non ALPA carrier.

Then he comes on here talking about how great ALPA is and apparently sees no inconsistency in his own prattle.

As someone who has been at both ALPA and non-ALPA carriers, I think I'm a pretty good witness for the worth of ALPA. There is simply no comparison. ALPA is worth every penny of dues and then some.

P.S. You can call it "abandoning" if you wish, but not all of us wish to be regional lifers as yourself.

 

[jke406]

As someone who has been at both ALPA and non-ALPA carriers, I think I'm a pretty good witness for the worth of ALPA. There is simply no comparison. ALPA is worth every penny of dues and then some.

Looking for a kickback someday?

ALPA had its time, a time that's come and gone. It is now a corrupt dinosaur. It sells its majority out. It rolls over to leftists, and cannot possibly speak for the huge variety of pilot groups it represents.

It is a shameful blight on our profession.

We have seen how well the unions have done for their membership in Michigan, etc. with all the outsourcing that's occurred. What makes anyone think were immune, or that ALPA won't sell us out there, too?

Hello, Cabotage. Thanks, ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

Ah, the flightinfo village idiot now makes his appearance!

 

[SaturnPilot]

PCL_128 abandoned his pilot group as an ALPA status rep. in the middle of contract negotitations to take a job at a non ALPA carrier.

Then he comes on here talking about how great ALPA is and apparently sees no inconsistency in his own prattle.

seriously...You expect him to have stayed at PCL and foregone career advancement so that he could stay at an ALPA carrier? Weak argument.

I guess everybody that volunteers at the regional level should just be frozen in place then?

 

[SaturnPilot]

yet another post completely void of any fact or meaningful discussion what-so-ever:

ALPA had its time, a time that's come and gone. It is now a corrupt dinosaur.

informative...care to back up that with any actual fact to debate?

It sells its majority out. It rolls over to leftists, and cannot possibly speak for the huge variety of pilot groups it represents.

yet again informative...what leftists is ALPA rolling over to? According to your post, pilot groups binding together is actually bad. I assume then that you would prefer every airline to have an in house union? Care to tell me how that is going to work as effectively?

It is a shameful blight on our profession.

yet again, nothing to back up this statement...no substance to the post.

We have seen how well the unions have done for their membership in Michigan, etc. with all the outsourcing that's occurred. What makes anyone think were immune, or that ALPA won't sell us out there, too?

is ALPA going to sell out MI residents now?

Hello, Cabotage. Thanks, ALPA

yes, Cabotage...clearly ALPA's fault. They invented it and lobbied for it, right??

If you reply to this thread, please let us know what you think the proper solution to ALPA is, AND how it is actually going to work. i.e. how will it be different, how will you sell it, etc.

 

[jke406]

here's the problem: you ALPA stooges seem to think you are the only answer to the problem.

Individual pilot unions, a la SWAPA and APA, are much better at representing their pilot groups' best interests. There is no way national can adequately represent so may groups whose best interests are at odds. At least APA has the balls to leave no doubt whatsoever what its priorities are in their negotiations. ALPA, not so much.

ALPA is nothing more than a cult of power that is so far removed from the everyday concerns of the pilots it represents, it's pathetic.

The only reason it exists is to keep itself in power and garner dues--to sustain that power.

Don't even pretend that ALPA did not sell out on Age 65--and is already laying the groundwork for selling out on cabotage.

 

[PCL_128]

Wow, you really are dense. ALPA has no conflict whatsoever in representing each pilot group, because each MEC operates independently when negotiating contracts. The purpose of the National union is to provide assistance and resources when necessary. You praise the APA, but the APA pays ALPA a ton of money every year for services such as legal and communications. Without ALPA, APA would be hosed. Get a clue.

 

[SaturnPilot]

here's the problem: you ALPA stooges seem to think you are the only answer to the problem.

Individual pilot unions, a la SWAPA and APA, are much better at representing their pilot groups' best interests. There is no way national can adequately represent so may groups whose best interests are at odds. At least APA has the balls to leave no doubt whatsoever what its priorities are in their negotiations. ALPA, not so much.

ALPA is nothing more than a cult of power that is so far removed from the everyday concerns of the pilots it represents, it's pathetic.

The only reason it exists is to keep itself in power and garner dues--to sustain that power.

Don't even pretend that ALPA did not sell out on Age 65--and is already laying the groundwork for selling out on cabotage.

I'm not a stooge and have never claimed to be an answer to "the problem". I'm merely asking you what your solution is in detail and how you're going to get it done. If it's better than ALPA, great.

I don't see how SWAPA and the APA are better at representing their groups' interests than ALPA. Care, once again, to back that up with any examples?

You talk about Age 65 and cabotage, but if we are all independent with no national union, who is going to be talking to congress about those issues? nobody??

How are the regionals going to be able to survive with independent unions? They won't even collect enough dues money to survive?

Your post is once again void of any meaningful discussion. Instead you come back with statements that hint of a fantasy novel. Please, try to post in detail your solution, how it is going to work specifically, how it is different than ALPA, how it will be funded, how you will garner support for it, etc.

 

[Occam's Razor]

ALPA is neither a republic or a democracy. It is an oligarchy run by the five largest MECs which masquerades as a democracy.

Interesting. Your contention is that the 5 largest MEC's always see eye-to-eye on every issue.

Not accurate, but interesting. "Madam Cleo" style interesting...

If ALPA's value to the piloting profession were obvious, a few disgruntled comments on an anonymous web board wouldn't raise much of a stir.

They don't. Get over yourself. In this case you're a game show on a rainy day. Amusement for a few.

That the sycophants on here are defending ALPA so vigorously seems to acknowledge the fact that the legacy MECs have screwed this association up so badly that its future as a viable entity is in serious question.

Here's an idea: Sue again! Maybe you can flush more of YOUR "sycophant's" money down a new rat hole! Or Amway...have you considered Amway? Seems like a natural follow-on to your last foray into multi-level marketing.

In other words, they wouldn't be sqeaking so loudly in ALPA's defense if they didn't wonder themselves.

Ok. Here you've got a tiny particle of accuracy. ALPA has warts. Hairy warts. Large hairy warts.

There are a few stunning things that ALPA does not do well.

But rather than blame the "vast large jet conspiracy" for them, as you do...I tend to view them as byproducts of having pilots running an interest-based organization.

Were we as homogenous as we ought to be, it wouldn't be an issue. But, as you well know, we tend to have differing priorities when we evaluate various issues facing our organization and our profession.

You thought you should be able to achieve cool goodies without having to pay any part of their price. When it turned out everybody else disagreed with you...you sued.

You lost.

So welcome to Ironyville. Population: N2264J

It's a (thankfully!) small town where pilots accuse ALPA of not doing right by their constituents...which is EXACTLY what the RJDC did to the morons who gave them money!

That pervasive smell?

"eau de loser"

 

[Occam's Razor]

Individual pilot unions, a la SWAPA and APA, are much better at representing their pilot groups' best interests. There is no way national can adequately represent so may groups whose best interests are at odds.

Attention FDX pilots! jke406...the Oracle of the Profession, sez your contract never happened.

Too many ALPA cooties!

doosh...

 

[Redmeat]

Occam, where have you been man!

post on the merger threads ...PLEASE!!