End ALPA - Begin War

[JoeMerchant]

I'm not defending ALPA compensation...I'm asking what you are doing to change it. It seems when your points are not getting accross, you default to calling me a cheerleader.

As Bringupthebird said, if you don't trust your leadership, why don't you just recall them? This is not a difficult concept. If I don't like the next President, I am simply not going to vote for him...I won't, as an alternative, form an Army to overthrow the gov't and "start over"

I am going to fight for a single list and an independent union on the Skywest property....saving ALPA isn't my concern....

 

[PCL_128]

Interesting that you bring up this issue....

The ASA and CMR MECs filed a similar grievance in 2000 after Delta purchased ASA and CMR.....ALPA refused to even pursue the grievance......

What you filed was a PID request. The PID didn't fit the language in the ALPA Bylaws or Admin Manual, so it was denied. It's amazing that after 8 years you still can't understand this simple concept.

 

[PCL_128]

BTW Joe, Rez doesn't work for Pinch-nickel.

 

[SaturnPilot]

Interesting that you bring up this issue....

The ASA and CMR MECs filed a similar grievance in 2000 after Delta purchased ASA and CMR.....ALPA refused to even pursue the grievance......

If this argument actually had merit, then the ASA and CMR MEC's had numerous other means of acheiving this goal (single-carrier petition, etc).

Would you please, instead of bringing up more "problems" provide us lowely, uneducated cheerleaders with your proposed alternative to ALPA. Is it non-union, independent union, etc? If it is another union, how will this one be structured to prevent all of the "politicking" that you have problems with at ALPA?

 

[SaturnPilot]

I am going to fight for a single list and an independent union on the Skywest property....saving ALPA isn't my concern....

an independent union at a regional?? The income from that idea will be so low that your dues will have to be upwards of 4% to even be able to function.

Nevermind the fact that Skywest pilots have proven time and time again that they don't want a union, they want to be at management's whim. Are you sure your independent union will actually get voted in, or do you think you will end up a single list at a non-union carrier?

 

[JoeMerchant]

What you filed was a PID request. The PID didn't fit the language in the ALPA Bylaws or Admin Manual, so it was denied. It's amazing that after 8 years you still can't understand this simple concept.

In addition to the PID, the ASA and CMR MECs filed grievances......Here is the response to the ASA MEC Chairman regarding ALPA's refusal to persue it...

http://www.rjdefense.com/2003/woerthsgrv_veto.pdf

The ASA and CMR pilots tried every internal method available to resolve this issue....

PID, grievances, and BOD resolutions......

The Pinnacle/Colgan issue only highlights the doublestandard within ALPA....Apparantly a single list on a holding company property is only acceptable if both groups fly "little" airplanes.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

an independent union at a regional?? The income from that idea will be so low that your dues will have to be upwards of 4% to even be able to function.

Nevermind the fact that Skywest pilots have proven time and time again that they don't want a union, they want to be at management's whim. Are you sure your independent union will actually get voted in, or do you think you will end up a single list at a non-union carrier?

My first concern is a single list at Skywest Inc....without it the whipsaw will trump any perceived benefit of ALPA.....

 

[SaturnPilot]

In addition to the PID, the ASA and CMR MECs filed grievances......Here is the response to the ASA MEC Chairman regarding ALPA's refusal to persue it...

http://www.rjdefense.com/2003/woerthsgrv_veto.pdf

The ASA and CMR pilots tried every internal method available to resolve this issue....

PID, grievances, and BOD resolutions......

The Pinnacle/Colgan issue only highlights the doublestandard within ALPA....Apparantly a single list on a holding company property is only acceptable if both groups fly "little" airplanes.....

Joe, the letter that you have linked here says that Duane will authorize and monitor for procedural fairness any individual grievance on this issue. So, ALPA would not file it because the LEGAL department said it has no merit, but Duane still said that he would support an individual's grievance on the issue. If this issue had merit, why was it not followed up on? The link above provides no argument that ALPA is holding the "little airplane people" down.

 

[737 Pylt]

Joe, the letter that you have linked here says that Duane will authorize and monitor for procedural fairness any individual grievance on this issue. So, ALPA would not file it because the LEGAL department said it has no merit, but Duane still said that he would support an individual's grievance on the issue. If this issue had merit, why was it not followed up on? The link above provides no argument that ALPA is holding the "little airplane people" down.

Hence why Joe and the rest of the rjdc girls spent $$thousands for the result of a nothing lawsuit.

Their PID was an attempt at a seniority steal that backfired like their pathetic little lawsuit. That's why Joe is so miserable!
Ask him about his tantrums while serving as secretary/treasurer!?

737

 

[SaturnPilot]

My first concern is a single list at Skywest Inc....without it the whipsaw will trump any perceived benefit of ALPA.....

I agree that a single list would be best for Skywest/ASA to prevent whipsaw. I don't see how dumping ALPA would get you there though...unless you want to join SAPA. Now there's an organization with TEETH!! And they don't have a presidential salary package to argue about...PERFECT!

 

[PCL_128]

In addition to the PID, the ASA and CMR MECs filed grievances......Here is the response to the ASA MEC Chairman regarding ALPA's refusal to persue it...

http://www.rjdefense.com/2003/woerthsgrv_veto.pdf

The ASA and CMR pilots tried every internal method available to resolve this issue....

PID, grievances, and BOD resolutions......

The Pinnacle/Colgan issue only highlights the doublestandard within ALPA....Apparantly a single list on a holding company property is only acceptable if both groups fly "little" airplanes.....

Ah, I had forgotten about this little bit of stupidity. I find it amazing that you even bring it up, since Captain Woerth did such a great job of explaining the faults in the ASA MEC's arguments for a grievance. ALPA doesn't pursue grievances that have no merit. As Captain Woerth pointed out, ALPA would virtually always open the system board to any pilot that wants to file any grievance, but ALPA doesn't waste resources on grievances that you pull out of your nether regions that have no basis in reality. Nothing in any of the three applicable contracts required a seniority integration in this case. Completely different situation from what happened at PCL/CJC.

 

[SaturnPilot]

Hence why Joe and the rest of the rjdc girls spent $$thousands for the result of a nothing lawsuit.

those would be Joe's friends who also quit leadership positions with voting power to "attack ALPA from the outside"? Excellent strategy...

Their PID was an attempt at a seniority steal that backfired like their pathetic little lawsuit. That's why Joe is so miserable!
Ask him about his tantrums while serving as secretary/treasurer!?

737

yes, I've been filled in on those also.

 

[PCL_128]

My first concern is a single list at Skywest Inc....without it the whipsaw will trump any perceived benefit of ALPA.....

As usual, you didn't answer his question: how do you intend to fund a union where the average member only makes about $60k per year (on the high side, at that)? You won't be able to achieve any list at all without resources. As is common with you, you're ignoring reality and going off on some idealistic tangent based on your hatred of ALPA. When you join back up with reality, get back to me.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Keep it up Saturn....you are helping to make the point for those of us who are fed up with ALPA....

You let off the rest of your sentence: "...who think the best way to deal with things we don't like is to hold our breath until we turn blue...then sue!"

The BOD is a highly political body....much like the US Congress....Deals are cut to protect people....

The HORROR!

"politics"! "protect people"!

The POLITICS you engaged in to achieve YOUR agenda? Why that was just an inspiried effort for a noble cause...right?

HA!

Face it, Poindexter...your Get Rich Quick scheme ran into the only possible way to run an interest-based collective (See also: "United States Of America" and "Constitution"): representational democracy.

That doesn't mean the "little people" who actually pay the bills agree with them....

Name a single small jet airline that "pays the bills". You know exactly who pays the bills at ALPA: The legacy airlines that you rail against.

ASA, CMR, PCL, MSA, etc are all subsidized by my dues.

It was highly unethical to change the formula so that DW didn't have to feel the pain that so many of the members felt after 911....

Pretty funny posting Herb's screed about compensation. His committee gave it's report to the Compensation Committee at the BOD. Remember who chaired THAT committee?

The President of ALPA gets a large compensation package that must be approved by a majority vote of the status reps in the entire Association. How'd that vote go? How'd YOUR reps vote?

If an ASA F/O were to get elected ALPA President, he/she would get the same package.

The Herndon elite lost touch a long time ago....

If they've "lost touch" with YOUR agenda, then all I can say is: Thank God!

Keep it up.....it helps to undermine ALPA.....

Keep suing, loser.

 

[N2264J]

Democray by definition follows the majority which ALPA does not. ALPA is a republic.

ALPA is neither a republic or a democracy. It is an oligarchy run by the five largest MECs which masquerades as a democracy.

If ALPA's value to the piloting profession were obvious, a few disgruntled comments on an anonymous web board wouldn't raise much of a stir.

That the sycophants on here are defending ALPA so vigorously seems to acknowledge the fact that the legacy MECs have screwed this association up so badly that its future as a viable entity is in serious question.

In other words, they wouldn't be sqeaking so loudly in ALPA's defense if they didn't wonder themselves.