Emergency Decent

[Spinplate]

I say get the mask on first and make sure you have good O2 flow first, then establish comm with F/O or Capt. for Emergency Descent Procedures. Fly the plane first even if its on AP, but I would prefer to be in manual emergency descent if my O2 was good, why not. Pilot has more control over airplane manually than in AP mode. Loss of cabin press. that drastic is going to be caused by some sort of structural failure somewhere in the plane so in manual mode you would have better control and would be able to make faster pitch/roll changes than AP if it were serious, but its totally situational on what the cause is. Last but not least get ATC to let you know if 10k will even be a good altitude (IMC over Colorado and splat). They'll tell you in a sec the lowest you could go in any direction. Like I said, depends on situation......need to know more on conditions inside and outside of plane.

 

[CJdude]

I agree with J32 Driver.
However refer to the checklist of the aircraft you fly under the you know RED PRINT that's why it's there.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Pilot has more control over airplane manually than in AP mode. Loss of cabin press. that drastic is going to be caused by some sort of structural failure somewhere in the plane so in manual mode you would have better control and would be able to make faster pitch/roll changes than AP if it were serious, but its totally situational on what the cause is. Last but not least get ATC to let you know if 10k will even be a good altitude (IMC over Colorado and splat). They'll tell you in a sec the lowest you could go in any direction. Like I said, depends on situation......need to know more on conditions inside and outside of plane.

If I had structural problems as the reason for the depressurization, the last thing I want to do is start yanking and banking. The A/P is going to do a fine job of holding your current speed (if you have structural issues, the last thing you want to do is run 'er up to Vmo/Mmo) or accelerating if you desire/need to.

Just for giggles, here's the Emergency Descent flow (for the CRJ)as I remember it (it's late and I'm way too tired):

O2 masks don
Establish communications
Hot mic on
Speaker on
Mask/Boom mic Mask
"Captain on O2"
"First Officer on O2"
Captain Flow:
Seat belt sign on
FCP:
Set lower altitude
push speed knob
engage speed mode
Thrust levers idle
Flight spoilers deployed
Synoptic page: doors (looking for potential structural damage)
Set airspeed to Vmo/Mmo if no obvious structural damage
PA announcement to passengers.

First Officer Flow:
ATC:
Declare emergency
Verify airspace below is clear
Inquire about the MEA
7700
Reset altitude to 10,000 or MEA whichever is higher
PAX O2 on as commanded by Captain

AT 10,000 or MEA
Flight spoilers retract
Set airspeed to 250
O2 masks off
Captain transfers control to First Officer
Captain calls Flight Attendant to assess damage.

Y'all may want to nit-pick this or that, but this is basically the way our Flight Ops wants it done. Feel free. I won't bother responding. This is my point though....... who in the hell wants to be hand-flying at the same time?


AF

 

[Flyingdutchman]

I say get the mask on first and make sure you have good O2 flow first, then establish comm with F/O or Capt. for Emergency Descent Procedures. Fly the plane first even if its on AP, but I would prefer to be in manual emergency descent if my O2 was good, why not. Pilot has more control over airplane manually than in AP mode. Loss of cabin press. that drastic is going to be caused by some sort of structural failure somewhere in the plane so in manual mode you would have better control and would be able to make faster pitch/roll changes than AP if it were serious, but its totally situational on what the cause is. Last but not least get ATC to let you know if 10k will even be a good altitude (IMC over Colorado and splat). They'll tell you in a sec the lowest you could go in any direction. Like I said, depends on situation......need to know more on conditions inside and outside of plane.

Agree. Been based in Colorado for 2+ years.. sometimes, over some areas, 12.000' is still below your MOCA/MSA

 

[Spinplate]

I wasnt talking about yanking and banking. Im talking about the ability react faster in manual mode than pushing buttons to try and get a desired pitch/speed setting from your FD/AP. Regardless someone needs to be monitoring the AP, so why not be flying it to get a faster rate of descent going vs. trying to punch buttons. If one pilot only, I agree that the AP should be used. Only if 2 pilots are capable of flying should it be done and if so, each one understanding what the other is doing to get it accomplished faster and without error. If 3k a minute is limit on an A/P, you will have some freezing a$$ unconscious people in the back. I say get down faster within reason and limits of airplane depending upon what the actual depressurization problem is if even known. good night all, To Be Continued................................

 

[ArcticFlier]

I wasnt talking about yanking and banking. Im talking about the ability react faster in manual mode than pushing buttons to try and get a desired pitch/speed setting from your FD/AP.

Once you start down like the manhole cover you just turned the airplane into, how much faster do you really need to react to start the whole process?

AF

BTW, 3000 fpm isn't a limit on any A/P I've flown. I'm not saying that some out there don't have that limitation, but I don't think they are installed in anything that encompasses what we are talking about here.

 

[SouthTex]

C'mon people, like we have all been there and "this how I dealt with it crap." Let's quit BS'n and realize that...crap what's the point on this board, you can study but unless it envolves ALPA or how you were shafted by management-what does it matter? See you at the bar.

 

[satpak77]

Flightsafety teaches IAS hold on AP in the B-350, once you manually have nosed down and established the emergency descent speed and emergency descent checklist is done or almost done. AP the rest of the way down.

Also "use your judgement" is taught. A decompression at 15,000 is less of an "oh sh1t lets get down now" than one (obviously) at FL 330

 

[mdanno808]

A/P engaged at my company. Let the airplane do it's thing while the pilots run the checklists, notify atc, watch for traffic, etc.

 

[jobear]

A/P

Jobear

 

[FlyingFerris]

Just be careful someone is still watching the autopilot. Nothing like making a bad situation worse.

Like if both pilots that didn't get their masks on in time and an aircraft falling out of the sky thrust idle? Yeah you may wake up in time, you may not.

 

[FL350]

Well this is coming from a corporate pilot but the Citation 650 has EDM (Emergency Descent Mode). Above FL 34,850, if the cabin altitude went over a certain level (I think 13,500) the aircraft would automatically enter a 45 degree descending bank 90 degree turn accelerate to Mmo/Vmo and automatically level off at 14,500. Pretty cool stuff, of course if you weren't conscious enough to add power at 14,500, things got ugly pretty quick. Of course if you weren't concious when you got down there, you probably didn't care anyway. All you HAD to do was put your mask on and pull power. If you could get the boards out it was gravy.

All that being said, I would still rather hand fly the airplane.

 

[ASH]

I ditto the use of the AP, but I would probably TCS ( touch control system) the nose over to get it going quickly, as the AP likes to make it nice and gentle.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

bumppp

 

[bafanguy]

With the A/P on, set 10,000, select IAS mode, power to idle, boards out. Nothing else to do other than deal with the problem. I'd let the autopilot do the work.

Ding...ding...ding !!! We have a winner !! Some airplanes may dictate different profiles, but in a two pilot, automated airplane particularly, the AP should do the flying with the PF monitoring/talking to ATC and the PNF working the problem.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Ding...ding...ding !!! We have a winner !! Some airplanes may dictate different profiles, but in a two pilot, automated airplane particularly, the AP should do the flying with the PF monitoring/talking to ATC and the PNF working the problem.

Exactly.................some people want to be Yeager or Crossfield.


AF

 

[Captain X]

Probably let the A/P fly it unless I had reason to believe there had been some kind of structural failure

 

[ArcticFlier]

Probably let the A/P fly it unless I had reason to believe there had been some kind of structural failure

How is hand flying going to make a difference if you've had some kind of structural failure? Are you going to be more gentle?

Why increase your work load? You've got a third pilot (A/P) just waiting to fly the plane for you, doing exactly what you tell it to do. Let it. It's what it was made for.


AF

 

[rvsm410]

Question; If the AP is set to 10K cant the FMS also set the IAS once the acft arrives at that altitude?
Point being if for some reason the crew were to have "browned" out up at altitude, it would be comforting to know that the FMS would fly the airplane for awhile by herself while the crew got there act together again.....Assuming ATC was notified by the crew or dispatch of the emergency, they would not have to worry about other aircraft as well...

Just trying to think out the senerio....Of course you would hope there was enough FOB to give significant time to the crew to regain themself's before exhaustion...

 

[bafanguy]

Question; If the AP is set to 10K cant the FMS also set the IAS once the acft arrives at that altitude?
...

In this senario, you wouldn't mess with the FMS. You do what's necessary to set speeds/altitudes on the flight guidance system panel ( takes 2.5 nanoseconds ). This will eliminate any "surprises" from the automation. This way, things will turn out as you need them to turn out.

The guys who allude to manual flying in this situation are trying to say that speed and altitude ( producing max descent rate to 10k/MEA ) are paramount. The question is, how do you accomplish that. Guys with APs they don't trust in rapidly changing conditions will opt for manual flying.

The last thing you want to do is program the magic when the cabin is hitting 14K and the masks are dropping.

In the 727, you flew manually; in the MD80, you used the AP because it did a lot better job than you would in a pinch.