Embry-Riddle

[UndauntedFlyer]

I have to disagree. It may be at the bottom of your priorities. That doesn't mean it's low quality, nor desireable.

A pilot flying international freight typically leaves home for 17 days at a time, with one commute out, and one commute back. Not a commute twice every three days. The pilot flying that back of the clock freight is also home more, continuously. For some who like to stay up, it works great. And for a job that means one flies long, relaxing legs...not really the most objectionable nor challenging existance. One could say that some are quite happy with that life.

So far as making the captain's meals...that would depend on the crew, but I believe you'll find it to be an inaccurate notion.

I won't speak for others here, but I've done a lot of flying that others won't do for various reasons. I feel very fortunate to have had the privilege. If others don't want those assignments, what's it to me? You, or someone else might not want my life, but that does nothing to change the quality and it's meaning to me. I think the same could apply to anybody out there doing what they want to do. That you or I or anybody else believes it's a high quality of life is really meaningless and irrelevant. Don't be too quick to condemn.

Avbug: As always, you comments are worth reading and considering.

I have flown all-night freighters ORD to the coast and back and other similar freighter schedules. We always joked that we had every day off, but in reality, it was a horrible schedule and was only something I was forced into because of juniority. Of 300 pilots the freighters were the schedules that the bottom man was forced to fly. Even reserve was a higher level.

On that trip, while it wasn't mandated, it seems the junior crewmember usually volunteered to get the coffee, heat up the meals and serve them too. He/she was never asked or ordered to do so; it was just something that the junior guy did, especially if this was a crew with a F/E.

Of course, the fact is that while we made the best of this situation, these schedules were horrible compared to doing the same thing with a 10AM departure and a FA to serve the crew. And that was proven by the juniority of the crews flying those trips.

Sometime later I had occasion to use the off-line jump seat on a freighter from LOU to Tampa. I was shocked at the whole quasi-military style of the operation. The crews were great but the whole aspect of the all-night flying, the heavy security everywhere, no jetways, no passengers, no flight attendants, was definitely not something that was desirable by comparison to passenger flying. In some ways all-night flying can be what someone wants because of the money saved by not having to hire a sitter for your kid or whatever, but for the same trip, all night freighters are not desirable flying by any comparison.

A 14-day international trip probably is not too much different because your body is so confused it doesn't know what day it is much less what time it is. But again, by comparison, having F/A's to talk with from time to time, to be served drinks and meals and to consider what the crew is doing on the L/O's brings additional quality to the work.

I fully realize that the UPS and FedEx crews are now the highest paid crews, but my opinion is that they earn it. It's a difficult life for those crews by comparison. Is it worth it? For the same money, no, but because of the money, it's now become a much better job than it was. It's the money that has equalized the jobs somewhat.

Of course, the whole topic of this thread is ERAU. And Highsky thinks that he has the greatest job because he is an ERAU graduate. He brags because he flies freighters, as if that is something that I and others would envy. Well you can see that I certainly have no envy for anyone who does that job. If they want it; fine, but it’s all a trade-off.

And one big disadvantage at UPS and FedEx, someone correct me if I’m wrong here, but the age 60/65 change hits particularly hard at those airlines. While there may be as much as 5-years of stagnation at other airlines, UPS and Fed Ex will have to endure that longer. That’s because those 60 plus pilots who bid the F/E seat will be coming back. That will add a couple of years to the stagnation I would think.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Point of clarification

Just for clarification regarding ERAU (both Prescott and Daytona Beach), I do think they are both fine schools and the graduates I've met from there are all no problem to me or anyone else, even Highsky with his attitude. I have no problem with Highsky except that he seems to think ERAU and his education from that school got him to where he is today. That is probably true to a point, but my point is that other schools and other majors would just as likely have given him the same result and for far less money, in fact, half the money or even less than half for UND.

Certainly the USAFA would have been a better choice all around if Highsky could have been admitted, after all it's free. Since Highsky wanted to go in the USAF as a pilot anyway, it was kind of dumb to spend all that money on ERAU when it wasn't necessary. He could have been admitted to any one of the military academies from what he says about himself and gotten just as good an education plus free (and much better) flight training.

Other schools like UND, Daniel Webster, Western Michigan, SIU, Purdue, U of I. etc could all do the job too, certainly just as well as ERAU. There is just nothing special about ERAU except in Highsky’s head. An ERAU graduate does not get any special advantages for employment anywhere, in private or public service.

 

[RP170]

I attended the Air Force Academy but received a medical discharge after an injury caused me to have nerve damage in my left shoulder.

I then went to Riddle and received an Aeronautical Science degree. I wouldn't trade it for anything. My Riddle education has always been looked upon positively in every interview I've had.

I honestly do believe it sets you apart from someone who went to another college and did flight training on the side, just as attending a military academy sets you apart from someone who attended a civilian institution.

I can't complain about how my education and career progression has occured. If I had to do it the same way all over again, I would.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I honestly do believe (ERAU) sets you apart from someone who went to another college and did flight training on the side, just as attending a military academy sets you apart from someone who attended a civilian institution.

No doubt you are correct about any of the military academies, but ERAU is no different than UND, U of I, Western Michigan or SIU with regard to a pilot applying to an airline. And since Embry Riddle is know as an expensive school, the perception is that it's just a bunch of rich kids who go to school in Florida to get some sun and beach time.

 

[ERJdca]

Highsky: You really are a piece of work and a disgrace to ERAU, that is certain. You can not even make a reasonable post without profanity. (Ref: your post #30.) Is that not a disgrace to ERAU, and to the USAF? Aren't you an officer? Yet your language is that of a vulgar uneducated person. That does qualify you as a disgrace and an embarrassment, does it not? What do you think the Director of the ERAU Aviation program would say if he saw the type of language you use, or how about your CO? What would he say?

Funny, isn't that attitude all over this forum? Airline guys, Military guys, UND, GA, whatever... There are very few on here that actually post good info without being disrespectful or arrogant.

I too attended Riddle and I am happy that I did. A school is only as good as the graduates it produces. Because you attend a certain school doesn't mean you are any better than anyone else. I also love to hear that "stupid aviation degree" comment. There are more guys who cause arguments or make comments about
Riddle guys than Riddle guys themselves make to or about others. It’s all silly, stupid and ridiculous. There are just as many a@@'s from other places in this industry. Wouldn't you agree? It comes down to the person, not the school.

At the time I enrolled it actually was very competitive to get it. I know many people who didn't get it and than bad mouthed the school.

The comment about warm bodies is a bit ignorant. How about ALL the regional’s hiring at 250-500 hours (minus a few)? I think everyone in this business is looking for a warm body. It’s a pilot shortage!

Everyone needs to do what they think is best for them. If going to an FBO is it, then go for it! If going to Riddle is it, great for them. Life is full of options, pick what is best for you and let others do the same.

 

[ERJdca]

And since Embry Riddle is know as an expensive school, the preception is that it's just a bunch of rich kids who go to school in Florida to get some sun and beach time.

Absolutely False. Another "rumor" that floats around and never ends. Sure, a few kids their had money but the average student came from middle class households. Just like every other school.

My dad made 65K a year and was able to help some. Many other friends I know were in the same boat.

I will say, it was a nice perk to have the beach nearby!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Absolutely False. Another "rumor" that floats around and never ends.

You see there it is. It doesn't need to be true as long it is true that there is that rumor, and as you say, it "never ends." So no matter how untrue it is in reality, that is the perception. So since it is never ending it will always be the reputation, true or not.

I was down at Riddle in Dayton Beach one time, took a tour and I was impressed. I have no doubt that Riddle is a fine school and so is the Prescott campus which I also toured that same year. There is no doubt that ERAU is a very fine school. I also toured UND as well as Purdue, all of which were very well equipped with the latest and greatest in training equipment. So really they are all equal as best I could see in terms of equipment.

Of course all of that means so little because it’s just equipment. The real quality of the program is measured in the faculty attitude about education and the desire to provide a top quality flight program in terms of stick and rudder basics as well as some level of training in advanced aircraft.

At Purdue I was most impressed with the fact that rather than follow the Part 141 program, they felt they could do better with a Purdue University Approved program that addressed the real needs of today’s graduate. The FAA has lots of good people to design an FAA approved program but the industry changes too fast for what was thought to be good in the past; and besides, many of the FAA requirements are so inflexible that change is nearly impossible. So don’t you think a university with experts in training and the aviation industry can do a better job for their own program rather than a “one size fits all” FAA program designed in Washington for the whole USA, for a Ma & Pa FBO to a major university? While the Commercial Instrument graduates must have 250 hours under the University program instead of the 190 hours in a Part 141 program, it is obvious that the extra training hours and more importantly the stick and rudder skills learned, as well as the advanced glass training is what today’s graduate needs. I applaud this initiative to break from the Part 141 norm, think outside the box and design their own program, tailor made for the industry needs. Purdue, rather than trying to provide less and less training, they provide more training in their program. As anyone knows, training is always the best investment in safety. Yet the industry always wants to provide less and less training. Just look and the new Sport pilot where a pilot can carry a passenger with just 20 hours of flight time . That is a joke on the public that is certain to kill innocent people. What is the industry thinking? For a passenger flying with a new "Sport Pilot," it will be like a heart patient going to a "Sport Surgeon" for an operation.

There may be other programs like the Purdue initiative, but any school that offers a 190-hour program is just offering the FAA minimum. A real top notch program should offer more than the minimum. It should offer more not less because that’s what it takes to train a pilot. I am afraid that next we will have “Sport Airline Pilots.”

 

[ERJdca]

You see there it is. It doesn't need to be true as long it is true that there is that rumor, and as you say, it "never ends." So no matter how untrue it is in reality, that is the perception. So since it is never ending it will always be the reputation, true or not.

Absolutely correct, however that's the problem. It is not true, yet it will never end from the ignorant individuals ranting. If I had a dollar for ever rumor a pilot started I would be playing golf with Donald Trump.

I agree that there are many programs that are good and its nice to hear that their are schools that train above the minimums but I would also imagine the price tag is increased somewhere to compensate. I don't know what the current curriculum is so I cannot
comment. I can say the training was not limited to just the airplane.

Again, it is all about the best fit for each individual.

 

[ERJdca]

You see there it is. It doesn't need to be true as long it is true that there is that rumor, and as you say, it "never ends." So no matter how untrue it is in reality, that is the perception. So since it is never ending it will always be the reputation, true or not.

Absolutely correct, however that's the problem. It is not true, yet it will never end from the ignorant individuals ranting. If I had a dollar for ever rumor a pilot started I would be playing golf with Donald Trump.

I agree that there are many programs that are good and its nice to hear that their are schools that train above the minimums but I would also imagine the price tag is increased somewhere to compensate. I don't know what the current curriculum is so I cannot
comment. I can say the training was not limited to just the airplane.

Again, it is all about the best fit for each individual.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I agree that there are many programs that are good and it's nice to hear that there are schools that train above the minimums but I would also imagine the price tag is increased somewhere to compensate.

The "Tailor made" 250-hour programs are really no more expensive than the 190-hour commercial programs with the multiengine add-on. The tailor made programs use 50 hours in a FTD and at least 25 hours in a twin, plus lots of dual IFR X-C. Whereas the 190 hour Part 141 programs us too much VFR solo X-C and too little IFR X-C. So you see when a school wants to think outside the norm the program can be the best at preparing a student for airline work, which is all IFR X-C.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I don't think anyone is questioning that ERAU, Purdue, UND, etc are the best way to prepare yourself for a career in a 121 cockpit, if that's your sole, driving goal.

I might suggest, however, that no one should decide exactly what they want to do and how they want to do it for the next 40+ years of their life when they're 19 years old and think airplanes are super cool.

I like flying. There's a boatload of BS that comes along with it, of course, but I still enjoy it and think it's a decent career. That said, I'm glad I've had a lot of other experiences, and that I have a degree which will get me a job with a living wage should flying not pan out for any one of the many reasons it can not pan out.

That's not to say that all ERAU guys are tools. They run the spectrum, just like everyone else. I could observe that there might be a slightly higher tool-quotient from hyper-serious self-important Aviation Degree Programs, but what would be the point? It would just start more bickering.

The real point is that pilot factories (and I mean that in a neutral way) are expensive and prepare you for only one road in life. They also on average prepare you better than any other program for that one road. Take from that what you will.

 

[avbug]

I don't think anyone is questioning that ERAU, Purdue, UND, etc are the best way to prepare yourself for a career in a 121 cockpit, if that's your sole, driving goal.

If you're talking about a 121 cockpit with a regional, the best way to prepare is to get the bare minimum certification anywhere, and have a pulse. A degree is irrelevant, and no other preparation is needed.

If you're talking about the best way to prepare to get in a major airline 121 cockpit, then the best way to prepare is to gain the necessary experience.

Experience is not found in college.

There's plenty of room to question if a degree from ERAU is the BEST way to achieve any goal...it's not. It's another degree. So far as a degree in professional aeronautics...it's a piece of paper. That's all.

 

[highsky]

Highsky: Besides the problems in your personal life with your failed marriage and women as previously referenced, and that you seem to dismiss all of that out of hand in favor of all your momentary accomplishments, you seem to think that flying cargo is a great honor of some kind. Well I don't think I should have to tell you that flying all-night freighters is right at the bottom in terms of quality to life. And how do (or did) you like fixing the meals and coffee for your captain? Yes, it's probably the right place for you, where you don't have to interact with many people. If you had to actually work with others, especially women, I'm sure you wouldn't survive long before you'd be in the office or fired outright. It's your attitude that speaks volumes. Just one look at your prior post and your bio says it all.


One question: Did you learn to act as you do before, during or after ERAU?

Wow. You really put me in my place.

Nice debating skills. You rod. Go back to 8th grade, if they'll take you.

 

[avbug]

You rod.

Still the stark, raving intellectual, aren't you?

What would you say if you didn't have a college education?

 

[RedGuy]

Just curious, I don't have any college degree, just my ratings that I got all from local FBO's. Am I less of a pilot than someone with an aviation degree? I don't think so.

If you want to talk about NOT taking the path of least resistance, that's been the story of my life!:nuts: I don't know why I do it, but I've always taken the route that will give me the best experience rather than the easiest way to go. That being said, I do wish I'd gone to college right out of high school, but knowing what I know now I would never get a degree in Aviation. IMO it's almost a worthless degree. I would much rather get a degree in something like engineering (just because that interest me), but really any degree that you can do something with out side of aviation would work, always good to have a backup. I think that getting a degree in something I already know about wouldn't be furthering my education very well.


BTW highsky unfortunately you sound just like the co-pilot I described earlier in this thread. You are the Embry Riddle stereo type.