Embry-Riddle

[Boris Badenov]

All I can say definitively is that if you don't have any interests outside of aviation, you're going to be a miserable adult pilot no matter where you went to school

For my money, the liberal arts degree I received was worth more than an Aviation Science degree. Not because it makes me any more or less employable, but because it gave me the opportunity to study things that are IMHO a lot more important than airplanes, cool as they are.

 

[avbug]

I wasn't talking to you ****. I was talking with the know-it-all who debased everyone studying aviation in college.

You have no idea what my degree involved, and you don't have the foggiest f****** idea what combat feels like or how combat flying is logged. I'm not about to waste my time explaining it to your lilly-white a******* either. I wasn't asking for your damned admiration for my combat service; I was simply explaining to the poster that the younger guys affected by Age 60 aren't exactly a bunch of inexperienced, smart a****** kids, as he put it. However, even though I wasn't addressing you in my post, you felt compelled to jump on and devalue a combat veteran's service and sacrifice...that's real f******* cute tool. I'll bet you're a real crowd pleaser on Memorial Day.

Well how about that? Our little hero is an intellectual, too. Who'd have guessed. Did you learn all that in school? Or on the hardened battlefield of your nice, clean, air conditioned cockpit as you flew to and from "combat?"

You're just a poster child for riddle rats, aren't you?

As for age 65...deal with it. This little bit of legislation is a good thing, and has been a long time coming...coming back.

You neither went to college, nor risked your life for your country, yet you feel qualified to spit on my education and military service.

That's not exactly true, my boy. However, need not spout one's resume to make the point, nor is it necessary to throw a ticker tape parade in one's own honor. We've got you to do that, after all. You can try again when you wake up from your nap.

You sleep tight and dream all about that breadth of experience you got at riddle. Then when you've had your nap, come back and tell us all about it.

 

[highsky]

Well how about that? Our little hero is an intellectual, too. Who'd have guessed. Did you learn all that in school? Or on the hardened battlefield of your nice, clean, air conditioned cockpit as you flew to and from "combat?"

You're just a poster child for riddle rats, aren't you?

As for age 65...deal with it. This little bit of legislation is a good thing, and has been a long time coming...coming back.

Dude, 6198 posts on FI?

You seriously need to get a life.

Better yet, turn off your computer and enroll in some college classes. Get an education. Cherish the freedom that some of us step up to the plate to guarantee for you. You obviously don't know how much sacrifice or risk is required toward that task, judging from your foregoing sophomoric and inaccurate remarks.

You're a pathetic, bitter little man.

I'm done with you. It's Friday night, and I'm going out of town with my girlfriend all weekend.

Meanwhile, you'll be glued to this ridiculous website, wasting even more of your misguided life, banging out your 6199th post, trying to get a large computer audience to listen to you, because in the real world, no one obviously does.

Out.

 

[avbug]

Dude,

Dude? Dude? Couldn't your riddle education buy you better than that? Please, you're an officer and a...well, apparently an officer and a dude.

It's Friday night, and I'm going out of town with my girlfriend all weekend.

Ah, mercy date. While you may have fallen flat on intellect, at least charity is still alive and well.

It's afternoon, incidentally. Not night. You could be forgiven for the mistake, having just arisn from your nap, of course.

So far as being online...YOU'RE here...throwing a little tantrum. Kettle, meet the pot. And yes, you're black. At least now you know.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Highsky: You really are a piece of work and a disgrace to ERAU, that is certain. You can not even make a reasonable post without profanity. (Ref: your post #30.) Is that not a disgrace to ERAU, and to the USAF? Aren't you an officer? Yet your language is that of a vulgar uneducated person. That does qualify you as a disgrace and an embarrassment, does it not? What do you think the Director of the ERAU Aviation program would say if he saw the type of language you use, or how about your CO? What would he say?

My posts have never said I was a Vietnam veteran or that I had served in Vietnam. In fact, I have on several opportunities posted that I did everything I could to avoid going to Vietnam, just as our last two presidents did, and most everyone else who might get drafted to be shipped off to Vietnam. Those that served in Vietnam have been betrayed over an over by this country, i.e., Kerry and Gore, to say nothing of the age 60 pilots that have been discriminated against on the age-60 issue by those like you from the "get out of my seat" crowd. That has been your way of saluting those veterans; by forcing them to lose their jobs so guys like you could take them. That's real respect for those veterans. You are a disgrace as an officer with your attitude. I'm really surprised you haven't been discovered.

And regarding your example of the ERAU graduates doing better in pilot training than the others with the real degrees: That would be expected since your group mostly all had a significant amount of prior flight training. Your group had a very large head start. I would only guess that you needed that extra help, because without it you would have probably washed out, especially on account of your attitude and foul mouth.

So have you changed even one person's opinion in a positive way about their plans to attend ERAU? NO YOU HAVEN'T. Your post has been a total failure that has only caused others to stay away for ERAU. No one wants to attend a school if they think it’s full of people like you. So your post has been a failure, which is certainly true.

Please give the airlines a break and make the military a career if they will keep you.

Oh yes, while you have so confidently posted that I had leaned to fly at an FBO, the fact is that I learned to fly in a University flight program. And for your information, I know all about such programs. I did have my son learn to fly at an FBO before college. He was light years ahead of other students and worked for 4-years as a CFI while in school. I know from experience that there is no reason to learn to fly in a university program if you can complete flight training while in high school.

Just for the record, I recommend an aviaton degree for those who understand it's limitations. It is an easy way to get a fast 4-year degree; and it's certainly an enjoyable degree program. If that's a young person goal, then go for it. It will work and it will get that airline job. And it will qualify for a military pilot slot, if that person only has enough education to get through OTS.

One final point regarding ERAU. Aren't the admission requirements for the fligh program: A warm body and a big check for about $250,000? Take my word on this, there are many other schools for flight training and college that are half as expensive and just as good or better.

 

[vetrider]

I read the bios of the Blue Angels team once many years ago, and remember seeing a few degrees that I wasn't expecting. Degrees such as agriculture, forestry and such from less than ivy league schools, so to speak. Somehow those folks did all right(an understatement if there ever were one) without mighty ERAU.

There are only about fifty thousand ways to go about it, just a random sampling of any airlines pilots will show that. Well some airlines more than others, but my point is basically the same.

Another invaluable aid is a mentor, someone who knows that airlines look for specific things, and passes that on. A good mentor can in and of itself literally substitute for an ERAU type education in my opinion. In fact I believe that no college can come close to providing what the right mentor can.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Vetrider is right on. Listen to his man. He would make a top-notch mentor.

Highsky, on the other hand, is hot-head and a proven failure as documented in post #35. He wasted his education by repeating his aviation education in the USAF. He should have been first in his class but he was down the list, while others with no prior training probably finished ahead of him, such as the types of pilots who make the Thunderbirds and Blue Angles. As Vetrider sez, many of those pilots have degrees in agriculture & forestery. It certainly doesn't hurt to attend ERAU but it's just not necessary. Any other aviation school where you learn to fly is just as good. The only problem with ERAU is that they have people with attitudes like Highsky. Strangely, I have seen this before from that school. What is it about ERAU that attracts such types? Can anyone answer this?

If you want to do well in military training it is a sort of insurance policy against washing out to have prior training to include at least a private pilot certificate with an instrument rating and a 20-hour acrobatic course in a Pitts or better yet, a Super Decathlon, to learn real airmanship. Aerobatics, other than a spin or two, is something that isn't even taught at ERAU. Students at the Daytona campus can join a sport aviation club to learn some acro in a Pitts, and I applaud them for this, but only about 1% of the flight students take advantage of this opportunity. Personally, I think the ERAU instructors (as well as most CFI's) are afraid of acrobatics because they have no such training themselves. Because acrobatics are an unknown to the instructors, they discourage the students from learning acro with telling BS stories of the danger of such training, including tailwheel training.

So does a student who wants to be a professional pilot, civilian or military, need ERAU? Certainly not. Any flight training anywhere, college or FBO, plus a 4-year degree from any school in any major is fine. Aviation degrees are the path of least resistance if you want that path. It’s your choice. And why not if you’re positive certain that all you will ever want is to fly? That is OK in my view. And if I were to recommend a selected aviation major, I would recommend one that included training for an A&P license. A pilot candidate who graduates college with a Commercial, CFI and an A&P is a total airman, prepared for a career in aviation. Just don't drop out of the profession later and decide to do a career change.

 

[highsky]

or how about your CO? What would he say?

He has been one of my closest friends. I'll be sure to let him know that you're disappointed.

I did everything I could to avoid going to Vietnam, just as our last two presidents did, and most everyone else who might get drafted to be shipped off to Vietnam. Those that served in Vietnam have been betrayed over an over by this country

The Vietnam vets who sacrificed for their country were betrayed by guys like you who spoke out against the war, encouraging the enemy, and hiding when your country needed you.

the age 60 pilots that have been discriminated against on the age-60 issue by those like you from the "get out of my seat" crowd.

The same crowd you were in until you became a senior captain.

Hypocrite.

That has been your way of saluting those veterans; by forcing them to lose their jobs so guys like you could take them. That's real respect for those veterans.

I'm a combat veteran too. Does that mean when I'm a 64 year old 747 captain, all the junior pilots are required to forego their own career advancement to "salute" me by supporting Age 70 legislation?

You are a disgrace as an officer with your attitude. I'm really surprised you haven't been discovered.

A draft dodger lecturing a U.S. field grade officer and 5 year combat veteran on officership...

Your arrogance knows no bounds.

And regarding your example of the ERAU graduates doing better in pilot training than the others with the real degrees: That would be expected since your group mostly all had a significant amount of prior flight training. Your group had a very large head start. I would only guess that you needed that extra help, because without it you would have probably washed out, especially on account of your attitude and foul mouth.

I never would have guessed that a 60 year old retired airline captain could say something so juvenile.

Let me guess...your dad can beat up my dad too, right?

So have you changed even one person's opinion in a positive way about their plans to attend ERAU? NO YOU HAVEN'T. Your post has been a total failure that has only caused others to stay away for ERAU.

I see you're an expert on what everyone thinks. You and my ex-wife would get along well.

More importantly, I'm not trying to sell ERAU to anyone. If someone asks the question, I'll answer. It's a good school, but I couldn't care less what anyone else chooses.

But when I read ignorant posts like yours that spew inaccurate nonsense about the school or the benefits and value of its program, I have to step in a set the record straight. I'm not criticizing your school or life's choices; why are you trying to devalue mine?

Please give the airlines a break and make the military a career if they will keep you.

Sorry to disappoint you Old Man. Like I said, I'm already at a large U.S. cargo airline. You know...the one where everyone wants to work.

Oh yes, while you have so confidently posted that I had leaned to fly at an FBO, the fact is that I learned to fly in a University flight program.

go to an Aviation college after leaning to fly elsewhere and study whatever you want but not necessarily aviation. Go to the aviation college/university so you can work in your profession as a CFI at that school, with all the benefits of leadership, experience in aviation, networking, flying teams, student aviation organizations and women.

Personally, that's what I did.

You were saying...?

Just for the record, I recommend an aviaton degree for those who understand it's limitations. It is an easy way to get a fast 4-year degree

Only someone without an aviation degree would say something so stupid. You look like a fool when you pipe off about things about which you know nothing.

Empty drums beat the loudest.

And it will qualify for a military pilot slot

An aviation degree does not in itself guarantee a military pilot slot. MUCH more is considered for this very competitive privilege. Then again, I wouldn't expect a draft dodger to know about such things.

if that person only has enough education to get through OTS.

That's cute. So now you're marginalizing those with an aviation degree as barely having the education required to get through OTS, and not being capable of much else.

You're pathetic.

One final point regarding ERAU. Aren't the admission requirements for the fligh program: A warm body and a big check for about $250,000?

Why do you waste people's time with mistatements like that?

I'm guessing you bullied people for sport in junior high. Those types never grow out of it. Now you're trying in vain to develop a pilot clique exclusive of schools and degree programs you've deemed unworthy.

You're a disgrace. Re-enroll in junior high Pops.

He wasted his education by repeating his aviation education in the USAF. He should have been first in his class but he was down the list, while others with no prior training probably finished ahead of him

Perfect example of my foregoing point.

How do you know how I did?

Since you brought it up...

--Valedictorian, ERAU, B.S. Aeronautical Science
--1994 U.S. Navy #1 selection worldwide for OCS/active duty flying slot
--1994 U.S. Air Force Reserve #1 selection worldwide for OTS/Reserve flying slot
--1996 (lowest pilot production year in history of USAF; i.e. most competitive) USAF Undergraduate Pilot Training class rank #1
--Class rank #1 in all USAF follow on flight training
--Hired at NWA early with ZERO multiengine PIC
--Currently flying with a large U.S. cargo airline that hires just 1 out of 200 applicants

Nah...that silly aviation degree didn't help me out much, did it.

Like you said, the military and airlines don't care about ERAU or aviation degrees. Pssst...you forgot to tell them that.

If you want to do well in military training it is a sort of insurance policy against washing out to have prior training to include at least a private pilot certificate with an instrument rating and a 20-hour acrobatic course in a Pitts or better yet, a Super Decathlon, to learn real airmanship.

FYI...Unless an incoming student has 1200 hours or more of previous flying, USAF UPT instructors can't distinguish him from a zero time guy. UPT is unlike any civilian training. I've seen plenty of Commercial pilots wash out of UPT. I even knew one with an ATP.

I agree with you that getting some preliminary aerobatic training is a smart move.

Personally, I think the ERAU instructors (as well as most CFI's) are afraid of acrobatics because they have no such training themselves. Because acrobatics are an unknown to the instructors, they discourage the students from learning acro with telling BS stories of the danger of such training

Huh??? Another over-reaching, inaccurate statement. I've known MANY more ERAU instructors than you sir. What qualifes you to make such an assertion?

So does a student who wants to be a professional pilot, civilian or military, need ERAU? Certainly not. Any flight training anywhere, college or FBO, plus a 4-year degree from any school in any major is fine.

Agreed; however, it no doubt advanced my career, and many others.

Aviation degrees are the path of least resistance if you want that path.

Again with the nonsense, spoken from someone without an aviation degree.

How do you expect anyone to take your advice seriously when you come across as such an arrogant, self-righteous know-it-all?

 

[JAFI]

Quote: "How do you expect anyone to take your advice seriously when you come across as such an arrogant, self-righteous know-it-all?"



The pot calling the kettle what?

Incomming............

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The previous post by JAFI regarding HIGHSKY's post is "Best of the Year!" Thank you, someone has to tell him.

Great career but I notice the part about your ex-wife. How many were there? Next, how many will there be? More to come I would expect. I hope you are able to prevent these personal problems, but it's your attitude that seems to be the problem: It's only about you. Anyone can see why you were a failure in that relationship. Does that tell you anything? I and others must dispute your high opinion of yourself and we've never even met you.

Highsky:

I agree with you that getting some preliminary aerobatic training is a smart move

At least we agree on one thing.

 

[JAFI]

For those who never heard the expression:

Pot calling the kettle black

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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The phrase "Pot calling the kettle black" is an idiom, used to accuse another speaker of hypocrisy, in that the speaker disparages the subject in a way that could equally be applied to him or her. In former times cast iron pots and kettles were quickly blackened from the soot of the fire. If personified into animate objects, the pot would then be hypocritical to insult the kettle's colour.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

QUOTE HIGHSKY: (I'm) currently flying with a large U.S. cargo airline that hires just 1 out of 200 applicants.

Highsky: Besides the problems in your personal life with your failed marriage and women as previously referenced, and that you seem to dismiss all of that out of hand in favor of all your momentary accomplishments, you seem to think that flying cargo is a great honor of some kind. Well I don't think I should have to tell you that flying all-night freighters is right at the bottom in terms of quality to life. And how do (or did) you like fixing the meals and coffee for your captain? Yes, it's probably the right place for you, where you don't have to interact with many people. If you had to actually work with others, especially women, I'm sure you wouldn't survive long before you'd be in the office or fired outright. It's your attitude that speaks volumes. Just one look at your prior post and your bio says it all.


One question: Did you learn to act as you do before, during or after ERAU?

 

[flyguy75000]

Highsky: Besides the problems in your personal life with your failed marriage and women as previously referenced, and that you seem to dismiss all of that out of hand in favor of all your momentary accomplishments, you seem to think that flying cargo is a great honor of some kind. Well I don't think I should have to tell you that flying all-night freighters is right at the bottom in terms of quality to life. And how do (or did) you like fixing the meals and coffee for your captain? Yes, it's probably the right place for you, where you don't have to interact with many people. If you had to actually work with others, especially women, I'm sure you wouldn't survive long before you'd be in the office or fired outright. It's your attitude that speaks volumes. Just one look at your prior post and your bio says it all.


One question: Did you learn to act as you do before, during or after ERAU?

I agree that this clown "Highsky" is quite arrogant.

But coming from UndauntedFlyer, there is no better an expression to compare YOU and Highsky than "The pot calling the kettle black."

Al, you yourself are quite an arrogant a$$ (and have been for a LONG time..most in the Chicago area or United family will agree to that....Autothrottles was your nickname I believe) for deameaning this guy about his failed marriage or his employment at a night cargo carrier. Who the hell are you to define quality of life? That is relative to each individual and their own situation.

By the way, you still wearing those 1980's sport coats with the cordouroy patches on the elbows?

I'd love to watch that video of Ty one more time so I can tell you how awesome a pilot he is!

Now that you're not pulling in a full paycheck, whats a private checkride at these days? $1100 or 1200 bucks?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I agree that this clown "Highsky" is quite arrogant.

By the way, you still wearing those 1980's sport coats with the cordouroy patches on the elbows?

I'd love to watch that video of Ty one more time so I can tell you how awesome a pilot he is!

Now that you're not pulling in a full paycheck, whats a private checkride at these days? $1100 or 1200 bucks?

Thanks for agreeing with me about Highsky.

Off subject: Do you still have your VTX 1300? How do you like it? I'm thinking of getting a used one.

Regarding the patched elbows, I can't afford anything else since I was fired for being too old. That's the way it goes, I have gotten over it. Now I just look at things differently, I got to retire early. I think the patched coat has kind of become my logo, just like my hat, don't you agree? It's perfect for checkrides but I do have another coat too, from the same era. But isn't that the way examiners are supposd to look? I know this will surprise you but I have been shamed into buying three new suits. They were on sale.

I have no big issue with the name "auto-throttles" but I have only heard it here on FI once or twice. I just know that that's the way people talk about their captains, with rather funny nicknames. I guess it's true, I liked the auto-throttles. After all, that's what they're for, to use from takeoff to landing, just as Boeing says to do. The auto-throttles do enhance safety.

Thanks for your comment about Ty. I'm lucky in that regard. I don't think anyone has ever said a negative thing about him. Probably because I've never heard him say a negative word about anyone either.

And last was the subject of checkride fees: It's still pretty much the same, $300 for one engine and $350 for two engines. Airline rate for CFI renewal/reinstatement is $250. The rest of the civilized world charges much more so I don't really think that's too much, do you?

Here is the link from the Aerobatic Forum at FI:

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?videoUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fvp.video.go ogle.com%2Fvideodownload%3Fversion%3D0%26secureurl %3DuwAAAG7ggqAHSiJjpW0D3w4aYTWgjoWEi5jsmLHLVJ3XTPm g7rj1nsKZDDZazU_3pBt00M6cIbkLTzjBJEQLus1PHucgptELM 2mZH4VVK0dVlIHP8Hf82nkielT2HyZxH81oTLEoMmZFI7yxBkQ hkqqZ0sAuzZxNplIAGiniONaCCXkICquIjElZ-kMWTEnK4FzjFNxzCPN5PQFLVinOxM6OrP_qJNtXeVf7tBCOnw3 04p0EZpnTu9Efx1zFHdoSHNxgWA%26sigh%3DwCsdnFfSyC2V0 uEqs90EXlxAW3g%26begin%3D0%26len%3D466932%26docid% 3D6655593846731088487&thumbnailUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fvi deo.google.com%2FThumbnailServer%3Fapp%3Dvss%26con tentid%3Dafc5f20427824a43%26second%3D5%26itag%3Dw3 20%26urlcreated%3D1146278272%26sigh%3DixcRXaNU9mNL omK2nXP_foBmBwI&playerId=6655593846731088487

 

[avbug]

Well I don't think I should have to tell you that flying all-night freighters is right at the bottom in terms of quality to life.

I have to disagree. It may be at the bottom of your priorities. That doesn't mean it's low quality, nor desireable.

A pilot flying international freight typically leaves home for 17 days at a time, with one commute out, and one commute back. Not a commute twice every three days. The pilot flying that back of the clock freight is also home more, continuously. For some who like to stay up, it works great. And for a job that means one flies long, relaxing legs...not really the most objectionable nor challenging existance. One could say that some are quite happy with that life.

So far as making the captain's meals...that would depend on the crew, but I believe you'll find it to be an inaccurate notion.

I won't speak for others here, but I've done a lot of flying that others won't do for various reasons. I feel very fortunate to have had the privilege. If others don't want those assignments, what's it to me? You, or someone else might not want my life, but that does nothing to change the quality and it's meaning to me. I think the same could apply to anybody out there doing what they want to do. That you or I or anybody else believes it's a high quality of life is really meaningless and irrelevant. Don't be too quick to condemn.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I have to disagree. It may be at the bottom of your priorities. That doesn't mean it's low quality, nor desireable.

A pilot flying international freight typically leaves home for 17 days at a time, with one commute out, and one commute back. Not a commute twice every three days. The pilot flying that back of the clock freight is also home more, continuously. For some who like to stay up, it works great. And for a job that means one flies long, relaxing legs...not really the most objectionable nor challenging existance. One could say that some are quite happy with that life.

So far as making the captain's meals...that would depend on the crew, but I believe you'll find it to be an inaccurate notion.

I won't speak for others here, but I've done a lot of flying that others won't do for various reasons. I feel very fortunate to have had the privilege. If others don't want those assignments, what's it to me? You, or someone else might not want my life, but that does nothing to change the quality and it's meaning to me. I think the same could apply to anybody out there doing what they want to do. That you or I or anybody else believes it's a high quality of life is really meaningless and irrelevant. Don't be too quick to condemn.

Avbug: As always, you comments are worth reading and considering.

I have flown all-night freighters ORD to the coast and back and other similar freighter schedules. We always joked that we had every day off, but in reality, it was a horrible schedule and was only something I was forced into because of juniority. Of 300 pilots the freighters were the schedules that the bottom man was forced to fly. Even reserve was a higher level.

On that trip, while it wasn't mandated, it seems the junior crewmember usually volunteered to get the coffee, heat up the meals and serve them too. He/she was never asked or ordered to do so; it was just something that the junior guy did, especially if this was a crew with a F/E.

Of course, the fact is that while we made the best of this situation, these schedules were horrible compared to doing the same thing with a 10AM departure and a FA to serve the crew. And that was proven by the juniority of the crews flying those trips.

Sometime later I had occasion to use the off-line jump seat on a freighter from LOU to Tampa. I was shocked at the whole quasi-military style of the operation. The crews were great but the whole aspect of the all-night flying, the heavy security everywhere, no jetways, no passengers, no flight attendants, was definitely not something that was desirable by comparison to passenger flying. In some ways all-night flying can be what someone wants because of the money saved by not having to hire a sitter for your kid or whatever, but for the same trip, all night freighters are not desirable flying by any comparison.

A 14-day international trip probably is not too much different because your body is so confused it doesn't know what day it is much less what time it is. But again, by comparison, having F/A's to talk with from time to time, to be served drinks and meals and to consider what the crew is doing on the L/O's brings additional quality to the work.

I fully realize that the UPS and FedEx crews are now the highest paid crews, but my opinion is that they earn it. It's a difficult life for those crews by comparison. Is it worth it? For the same money, no, but because of the money, it's now become a much better job than it was. It's the money that has equalized the jobs somewhat.

Of course, the whole topic of this thread is ERAU. And Highsky thinks that he has the greatest job because he is an ERAU graduate. He brags because he flies freighters, as if that is something that I and others would envy. Well you can see that I certainly have no envy for anyone who does that job. If they want it; fine, but it’s all a trade-off.

And one big disadvantage at UPS and FedEx, someone correct me if I’m wrong here, but the age 60/65 change hits particularly hard at those airlines. While there may be as much as 5-years of stagnation at other airlines, UPS and Fed Ex will have to endure that longer. That’s because those 60 plus pilots who bid the F/E seat will be coming back. That will add a couple of years to the stagnation I would think.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Point of clarification

Just for clarification regarding ERAU (both Prescott and Daytona Beach), I do think they are both fine schools and the graduates I've met from there are all no problem to me or anyone else, even Highsky with his attitude. I have no problem with Highsky except that he seems to think ERAU and his education from that school got him to where he is today. That is probably true to a point, but my point is that other schools and other majors would just as likely have given him the same result and for far less money, in fact, half the money or even less than half for UND.

Certainly the USAFA would have been a better choice all around if Highsky could have been admitted, after all it's free. Since Highsky wanted to go in the USAF as a pilot anyway, it was kind of dumb to spend all that money on ERAU when it wasn't necessary. He could have been admitted to any one of the military academies from what he says about himself and gotten just as good an education plus free (and much better) flight training.

Other schools like UND, Daniel Webster, Western Michigan, SIU, Purdue, U of I. etc could all do the job too, certainly just as well as ERAU. There is just nothing special about ERAU except in Highsky’s head. An ERAU graduate does not get any special advantages for employment anywhere, in private or public service.

 

[RP170]

I attended the Air Force Academy but received a medical discharge after an injury caused me to have nerve damage in my left shoulder.

I then went to Riddle and received an Aeronautical Science degree. I wouldn't trade it for anything. My Riddle education has always been looked upon positively in every interview I've had.

I honestly do believe it sets you apart from someone who went to another college and did flight training on the side, just as attending a military academy sets you apart from someone who attended a civilian institution.

I can't complain about how my education and career progression has occured. If I had to do it the same way all over again, I would.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I honestly do believe (ERAU) sets you apart from someone who went to another college and did flight training on the side, just as attending a military academy sets you apart from someone who attended a civilian institution.

No doubt you are correct about any of the military academies, but ERAU is no different than UND, U of I, Western Michigan or SIU with regard to a pilot applying to an airline. And since Embry Riddle is know as an expensive school, the perception is that it's just a bunch of rich kids who go to school in Florida to get some sun and beach time.

 

[ERJdca]

Highsky: You really are a piece of work and a disgrace to ERAU, that is certain. You can not even make a reasonable post without profanity. (Ref: your post #30.) Is that not a disgrace to ERAU, and to the USAF? Aren't you an officer? Yet your language is that of a vulgar uneducated person. That does qualify you as a disgrace and an embarrassment, does it not? What do you think the Director of the ERAU Aviation program would say if he saw the type of language you use, or how about your CO? What would he say?

Funny, isn't that attitude all over this forum? Airline guys, Military guys, UND, GA, whatever... There are very few on here that actually post good info without being disrespectful or arrogant.

I too attended Riddle and I am happy that I did. A school is only as good as the graduates it produces. Because you attend a certain school doesn't mean you are any better than anyone else. I also love to hear that "stupid aviation degree" comment. There are more guys who cause arguments or make comments about
Riddle guys than Riddle guys themselves make to or about others. It’s all silly, stupid and ridiculous. There are just as many a@@'s from other places in this industry. Wouldn't you agree? It comes down to the person, not the school.

At the time I enrolled it actually was very competitive to get it. I know many people who didn't get it and than bad mouthed the school.

The comment about warm bodies is a bit ignorant. How about ALL the regional’s hiring at 250-500 hours (minus a few)? I think everyone in this business is looking for a warm body. It’s a pilot shortage!

Everyone needs to do what they think is best for them. If going to an FBO is it, then go for it! If going to Riddle is it, great for them. Life is full of options, pick what is best for you and let others do the same.

 

[ERJdca]

And since Embry Riddle is know as an expensive school, the preception is that it's just a bunch of rich kids who go to school in Florida to get some sun and beach time.

Absolutely False. Another "rumor" that floats around and never ends. Sure, a few kids their had money but the average student came from middle class households. Just like every other school.

My dad made 65K a year and was able to help some. Many other friends I know were in the same boat.

I will say, it was a nice perk to have the beach nearby!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Absolutely False. Another "rumor" that floats around and never ends.

You see there it is. It doesn't need to be true as long it is true that there is that rumor, and as you say, it "never ends." So no matter how untrue it is in reality, that is the perception. So since it is never ending it will always be the reputation, true or not.

I was down at Riddle in Dayton Beach one time, took a tour and I was impressed. I have no doubt that Riddle is a fine school and so is the Prescott campus which I also toured that same year. There is no doubt that ERAU is a very fine school. I also toured UND as well as Purdue, all of which were very well equipped with the latest and greatest in training equipment. So really they are all equal as best I could see in terms of equipment.

Of course all of that means so little because it’s just equipment. The real quality of the program is measured in the faculty attitude about education and the desire to provide a top quality flight program in terms of stick and rudder basics as well as some level of training in advanced aircraft.

At Purdue I was most impressed with the fact that rather than follow the Part 141 program, they felt they could do better with a Purdue University Approved program that addressed the real needs of today’s graduate. The FAA has lots of good people to design an FAA approved program but the industry changes too fast for what was thought to be good in the past; and besides, many of the FAA requirements are so inflexible that change is nearly impossible. So don’t you think a university with experts in training and the aviation industry can do a better job for their own program rather than a “one size fits all” FAA program designed in Washington for the whole USA, for a Ma & Pa FBO to a major university? While the Commercial Instrument graduates must have 250 hours under the University program instead of the 190 hours in a Part 141 program, it is obvious that the extra training hours and more importantly the stick and rudder skills learned, as well as the advanced glass training is what today’s graduate needs. I applaud this initiative to break from the Part 141 norm, think outside the box and design their own program, tailor made for the industry needs. Purdue, rather than trying to provide less and less training, they provide more training in their program. As anyone knows, training is always the best investment in safety. Yet the industry always wants to provide less and less training. Just look and the new Sport pilot where a pilot can carry a passenger with just 20 hours of flight time . That is a joke on the public that is certain to kill innocent people. What is the industry thinking? For a passenger flying with a new "Sport Pilot," it will be like a heart patient going to a "Sport Surgeon" for an operation.

There may be other programs like the Purdue initiative, but any school that offers a 190-hour program is just offering the FAA minimum. A real top notch program should offer more than the minimum. It should offer more not less because that’s what it takes to train a pilot. I am afraid that next we will have “Sport Airline Pilots.”

 

[ERJdca]

You see there it is. It doesn't need to be true as long it is true that there is that rumor, and as you say, it "never ends." So no matter how untrue it is in reality, that is the perception. So since it is never ending it will always be the reputation, true or not.

Absolutely correct, however that's the problem. It is not true, yet it will never end from the ignorant individuals ranting. If I had a dollar for ever rumor a pilot started I would be playing golf with Donald Trump.

I agree that there are many programs that are good and its nice to hear that their are schools that train above the minimums but I would also imagine the price tag is increased somewhere to compensate. I don't know what the current curriculum is so I cannot
comment. I can say the training was not limited to just the airplane.

Again, it is all about the best fit for each individual.

 

[ERJdca]

You see there it is. It doesn't need to be true as long it is true that there is that rumor, and as you say, it "never ends." So no matter how untrue it is in reality, that is the perception. So since it is never ending it will always be the reputation, true or not.

Absolutely correct, however that's the problem. It is not true, yet it will never end from the ignorant individuals ranting. If I had a dollar for ever rumor a pilot started I would be playing golf with Donald Trump.

I agree that there are many programs that are good and its nice to hear that their are schools that train above the minimums but I would also imagine the price tag is increased somewhere to compensate. I don't know what the current curriculum is so I cannot
comment. I can say the training was not limited to just the airplane.

Again, it is all about the best fit for each individual.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I agree that there are many programs that are good and it's nice to hear that there are schools that train above the minimums but I would also imagine the price tag is increased somewhere to compensate.

The "Tailor made" 250-hour programs are really no more expensive than the 190-hour commercial programs with the multiengine add-on. The tailor made programs use 50 hours in a FTD and at least 25 hours in a twin, plus lots of dual IFR X-C. Whereas the 190 hour Part 141 programs us too much VFR solo X-C and too little IFR X-C. So you see when a school wants to think outside the norm the program can be the best at preparing a student for airline work, which is all IFR X-C.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I don't think anyone is questioning that ERAU, Purdue, UND, etc are the best way to prepare yourself for a career in a 121 cockpit, if that's your sole, driving goal.

I might suggest, however, that no one should decide exactly what they want to do and how they want to do it for the next 40+ years of their life when they're 19 years old and think airplanes are super cool.

I like flying. There's a boatload of BS that comes along with it, of course, but I still enjoy it and think it's a decent career. That said, I'm glad I've had a lot of other experiences, and that I have a degree which will get me a job with a living wage should flying not pan out for any one of the many reasons it can not pan out.

That's not to say that all ERAU guys are tools. They run the spectrum, just like everyone else. I could observe that there might be a slightly higher tool-quotient from hyper-serious self-important Aviation Degree Programs, but what would be the point? It would just start more bickering.

The real point is that pilot factories (and I mean that in a neutral way) are expensive and prepare you for only one road in life. They also on average prepare you better than any other program for that one road. Take from that what you will.

 

[avbug]

I don't think anyone is questioning that ERAU, Purdue, UND, etc are the best way to prepare yourself for a career in a 121 cockpit, if that's your sole, driving goal.

If you're talking about a 121 cockpit with a regional, the best way to prepare is to get the bare minimum certification anywhere, and have a pulse. A degree is irrelevant, and no other preparation is needed.

If you're talking about the best way to prepare to get in a major airline 121 cockpit, then the best way to prepare is to gain the necessary experience.

Experience is not found in college.

There's plenty of room to question if a degree from ERAU is the BEST way to achieve any goal...it's not. It's another degree. So far as a degree in professional aeronautics...it's a piece of paper. That's all.

 

[highsky]

Highsky: Besides the problems in your personal life with your failed marriage and women as previously referenced, and that you seem to dismiss all of that out of hand in favor of all your momentary accomplishments, you seem to think that flying cargo is a great honor of some kind. Well I don't think I should have to tell you that flying all-night freighters is right at the bottom in terms of quality to life. And how do (or did) you like fixing the meals and coffee for your captain? Yes, it's probably the right place for you, where you don't have to interact with many people. If you had to actually work with others, especially women, I'm sure you wouldn't survive long before you'd be in the office or fired outright. It's your attitude that speaks volumes. Just one look at your prior post and your bio says it all.


One question: Did you learn to act as you do before, during or after ERAU?

Wow. You really put me in my place.

Nice debating skills. You rod. Go back to 8th grade, if they'll take you.

 

[avbug]

You rod.

Still the stark, raving intellectual, aren't you?

What would you say if you didn't have a college education?

 

[RedGuy]

Just curious, I don't have any college degree, just my ratings that I got all from local FBO's. Am I less of a pilot than someone with an aviation degree? I don't think so.

If you want to talk about NOT taking the path of least resistance, that's been the story of my life!:nuts: I don't know why I do it, but I've always taken the route that will give me the best experience rather than the easiest way to go. That being said, I do wish I'd gone to college right out of high school, but knowing what I know now I would never get a degree in Aviation. IMO it's almost a worthless degree. I would much rather get a degree in something like engineering (just because that interest me), but really any degree that you can do something with out side of aviation would work, always good to have a backup. I think that getting a degree in something I already know about wouldn't be furthering my education very well.


BTW highsky unfortunately you sound just like the co-pilot I described earlier in this thread. You are the Embry Riddle stereo type.