Eagle class date... Skyway interview... decisions, decisions...

[Jeff Helgeson]

The other Eagle-boys below don't see it your way

A few more thoughts.

- I agree ... Interview experience is invaluable.
- I agree on taking the Eagle slot and leave if Skyway or other pulls through for you.
- I disagree - 23 is an appropiate age...for what? I have heard of a couple of stories of 19 years old getting hired at the majors. This person will need turbine PIC and Eagle wont provide it until he's 30 at least. And he can do better than that too. Where else can you gain maeningful seniority? - Colgan, Island Air (Hawaii), Gulfstream Int'l off the top of my head. These are all places that have movement & you can upgrade.
- Try to think about where you'll be in 3-4 years. I am at 4.5 years. There's a lot of people around, with a couple years less in this game, that are PIC's. Eagle was a mistake for me.

Not to pick on you, but others currently at Ealge don't share the same view, but nobody can really read the tea leaves!

I transferred to AE in 1994 (Executive - SJU) after working 5.5 years for AMR as an international F/A. My roomate who was less than 3 months senior to me upgraded in 6 months to the SD3-60. I was 3 out of 53 F/Os. Executive threatened 60-80 of us with furlough unless we went to Simmons at the bottom of the seniority pile. I went to Piedmont and got a raise, figuring I would be F/O for 6-8 years at AE. Things changed and I would have been Captain on the ATR in 4.5 years.

Current Eagle: Stagnation for now, but:

AE is the fastest growing regional in the world.

Only about 20% - 25% of the flowback people are flowing back and many were excluded from the process (including me, a 1996 TWA-hire). The interest in flowback isan't there for the majority. This is good for the new-hire Eaglette!

AE training is excellent and well respected in the avation community. I believe the highest amount of commutter types at TWA came from AE, there was a higher percentage from TSA. I think if an AE guy were competing for a major job in the future, he/she would have an advantage over a MESA or the like commuter-type, based on training alone. (Not picking on MESA!).

All AE furloughees have been recalled and they are hiring and lowering the minimuns. These are not indicators of "current" stagnation.

In closing, "Goodluck at AE"

Jeff

 

[FO 4 Life]

Another thought. What happens if you don't make it to UPS or FEDEX? You said yourself you're only 23. What will Skyway be 30 years from now? You can always leave a few years later if you don't make it to a major, but will you want to start over?

 

[NRHPilot]

Another thought. What happens if you don't make it to UPS or FEDEX? You said yourself you're only 23. What will Skyway be 30 years from now? You can always leave a few years later if you don't make it to a major, but will you want to start over?

3 out of every 1000 minor league baseball players make it the "the show", So if we can for just a minute treat a regional as a minor league team, how many regional pilots will make it to Fed Ex, UPS, etc...?

 

[English]

Another thought. What happens if you don't make it to UPS or FEDEX? You said yourself you're only 23. What will Skyway be 30 years from now? You can always leave a few years later if you don't make it to a major, but will you want to start over?

Another line of thinking is that if he doesn't make it to UPS or FedEx, he won't necessarily have to stay at Skyway. He can take an intermediary step, such as flying for a national or LCC. I don't think that would be considered "starting over".

 

[FHTEAGLE]

Thank you all very much!

I just want to say thank you all for your perspectives and opinions. Most of the comments you all have made were thoughts I've had at one point or another. Not surprised the discussion has orbited around upgrade time so much, as it seems to be on the front of everyone's mind in this "slow" time in the industry...

I had done a lot of thinking even before coming back to the forum to read your comments, and I was leaning highly toward going to, and staying at Eagle, regardless of an offer from Skyway. My reasons were varied, but mostly revolved around going for what I am going to enjoy over the next couple of years, not what a future employer is going to value higher. And, if turbine PIC ever turns out to be a stumbling block, I know there are other avenues that will be open to me after a year or two at Eagle, so I'm really not worried about that.

I'd like to hear more about the quality of life at both companies? Schedules, days off, commutable lines, whether scheduling tries and/or succeeds to "abuse" people? How are the chief pilots to deal with? Things like that.

Thanks again to all, made a very important decision for me a much more informed one, and that is invaluable!

 

[Capt. Over]

from someone who's been there.....done that....

Definitely go to the Skyway interview....regardless of what you decide on Eagle. In my opinion, with what you've listed as goals, I would say if you get the chance to go to Skyway, go.....you'll love it there. I had more good times there than anywhere. Pay isn't the best, but with the quick upgrade times, it's not bad. Hopefully the Delta thing goes through and they do well, as would you. I would get out of aviation before sitting as an F.O. at Eagle for 10 years. I still haven't had an Eagle jumpseater that had anything good to say about his/her company. Just my $.02 Good luck!

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I would have to agree that regardless of how much AE is growing and what their potential may be, the upgrades are a bit ridiculous. It takes turbine PIC to get anywhere in the airline industry..and it doesn't matter if its in a B1900 for Colgan Air or an a ERJ for American Eagle. I'd personally rather work someplace that I can move along and progress...not sit right seat for 5-10 years. But thats just my opinion.

 

[350DRIVER]

I would have to agree that regardless of how much AE is growing and what their potential may be, the upgrades are a bit ridiculous. It takes turbine PIC to get anywhere in the airline industry..and it doesn't matter if its in a B1900 for Colgan Air or an a ERJ for American Eagle. I'd personally rather work someplace that I can move along and progress...not sit right seat for 5-10 years. But thats just my opinion.

I Agree completely.. There is absolutely under no (zero) circumstances that one can even make the comparison to the value of 121 PIC time versus that of 121 SIC time, completely different animal all together. Why anyone would "want" and be "willing" to sit right seat for so long at AE (years) when you can go to Skyway and make captain in as little as 6 months to a year is beyond my wildest imagination, this would be a no-brainer if it were me, I wouldn't even waste the thought process on this one. Apparently anyone with ATP minimums is even getting typed right away. . . This should tell you something about how little time you can expect to be stuck in the right seat. With the additional DAL flying being added, type rating, quick upgrades, etc, this should be the easiest choice in the world. IF you have any intention(s) of getting to FedEx, UPS, etc, then it is going to take just a tad more than SIC time my friend.

Job security? I don't think Skyway will be going away anytime soon given the current shape of the company. They seem solid and they will only grow in future months. Eagle may be the fastest growing regional in the world but it surely isn't going to get you into the left seat any faster. From those that I know who are AE they seem pretty much assured of being in that right seat for a long time to come.

Congrats on getting the offer at AE but I think you need to look at this from a logical standpoint and do what will be best for your career.

I wouldn't even think twice about this one...

Before you cancel the Skyway interview I would seriously speak to others outside of this message board and pick a few brains.

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[RJP]

While I agree you should go to the Skyway interview if you can make it, I still have to voice my opinion that you should take the guaranteed job offer.

NOTHING is guaranteed in this industry. If you turn down Eagle and don't get hired at Skyway, then what do you do?

A couple of examples. I turned down a job at a regional for a corporate jet job. It was great, I made 10 times the salary I would've made at the regional but it lasted a whole six months. Had a hell of a time finding something after that. What if I had taken the job at the regional? Would've been an RJ captain long ago.

Also, a friend of mine was at Alaska. He quit when he got the call from UA. Went to UA and never got off the panel on the 727 when the furloughs hit. Chances are that he'll never get back there and last I heard, he wasn't flying for a living any longer.

Hard to turn down a sure thing for a question mark.

 

[350DRIVER]

NOTHING is guaranteed in this industry. If you turn down Eagle and don't get hired at Skyway, then what do you do?

If it were me...........

Commit to Eagle, go to Skyway interview, be successful and wala ... problem solved.

If one is successful at the Eagle interview then chances are the Skyway interview process will be a walk in the park in comparison to what he went through At Eagle.

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[FHTEAGLE]

An update...

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Thanks for all the input and ideas both here and on eaglelounge... I did indeed take the Aug 30th class, and I'm glad I did. I'm realizing that despite the horrible company/employee relations, the stability and modest growth here is the right move for me, for right now. Of course, I'm not going to lock myself in here, keep my eyes open to other possibilities (PIC, even if its corporate), but I think this will be a good bridge from here to whatever is next...

But, I've been picking the brains of the transitions from Executive and the flowdowns, etc... lot of good perspective there, helps us newbies see the propaganda and "kool-aid" for what it is. For example, it was interesting to me to be lied to by a director or VP level exec in the first week. The lie was pretty baldfaced, and easy to see through. Without going into details, it basically involved saying "TSA and CHQ doing American Connection flying never hurt the career of one pilot at Eagle". Funny, but planes parked in the desert, pilots furloughed or kept from upgrade sounds like careers hurt to me. Because of things like that, and many more, I will be always on the lookout for the company brainwashing,

Nonetheless, I think it wont be hard for me to enjoy the upgrade from 24+ days a month in a hot C172 to 18 days a month in a slightly less hot Sf340...

To anybody else thinking of coming here, do so with your eyes open. But, I can at least say that they have treated us quite well during training, been pleasant, etc. Very organized, they take care of most of the details for you. The ballpark's no 5 star accomodation, but definitely livable for 2 months. Feel free to drop me a PM if you have any questions about the interview, first week, etc (I'll be able to provide more info after I've gone farther in training!)

So yeah, to sum up, thanks for all the ideas, input, etc. It's always great to get information from the "older, wiser" people out there, especially those with firsthand and relatively unbiased information...

See you all on the line!
-=FHT=-[/font]

 

[English]

FHTEAGLE,


If you feel this way now, after only one week of indoc, how do you think you'll feel as a line pilot?
I hope you are still entertaining the idea of going to the SkyWay interview. Options are always good. In the meantime, enjoy your time at Eagle, as there are some great people working there.

 

[350DRIVER]

TSA and CHQ doing American Connection flying never hurt the career of one pilot at Eagle".

Let's hope these days will be coming to an end very soon.

AA flying should be done by them or AE.

pretty simple.

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