E-195 Never in the Regionals

[h25b]

Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 966



Aircraft Experience: Small singles and twins
Flight Experience: ciVillain
Ratings: CFII,MEI,AGI
Current Position: right seat hell
Total Time: 1100

piloted by sub 1000 hour fo's, too...

And the difference in skills between 500 TT and 1100 TT is sooo substantial..

 

[ultrarunner]

i could care less what plane i am flying as long as i am getting paid for what we all deserve. No one at the regional level gets paid what we should be for the type of equipment we fly.

The pay that you accepted IS the standard...you set it. Most folks don't understand that the bar has already been set so low.

When folks are willing to work for X dollars, that's what the market will bear, and that IS the standard.

To argure that some other pilot at some other airline is making more for similar sized equipement is such a shallow argurment, and only shifts blame to someone else.

Supply and demand dude....and the airlines are gonna win this battle for the next several years....

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

ATR and Q400 yes. All the jets, NO!!!! Jets should never have been allowed to go to the regionals. It's a mistake that all of us will pay for for the rest of our careers.

Why should the mode of propulsion matter? They are big airplanes... It's seats folks, not whether the fans have a cowling around them or not. Not so long ago, Viscounts, Martins and YS-11s were mainline equipment.

Personally I think if the unions had persued "brand scope" years ago none of this would be an issue. Fly an airplane in Delta paint, you fly for Delta I say. But I guess that ship has long sailed.

Sad.

 

[JoeMerchant]

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=Embraer%20ERJ-190%2F195&distinct_entry=true

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/865258/M/

I hope no one wants to fly this for a regional. the 170 never should have been either.

The mistake wasn't allowing the 170 to be flown by "regionals". The mistake was ALPA allowing certain airplanes to be labeled "regional" while others are "mainline". Then the mistake was ALPA allowing the airplanes labeled "regional" to be used as bargaining chips for those who are flying the airplanes labeled "mainline". There shouldn't be a moving line that is used to differentiate between "regional" and "mainline". How about "airlines" that fly "airliners".

Joe

 

[JoeMerchant]

Keeping the 190/195 at the majors is not the responsibility of regional pilots. It is up to mainline pilots.

Hopefully they can get it done.

Even if it means that they have to undercut the "regionals" to capture this flying? That is what the USAirways MEC did to capture the E170 flying. They undercut EVERY other regional. How is that good?

Joe

 

[JoeMerchant]

ATR and Q400 yes. All the jets, NO!!!! Jets should never have been allowed to go to the regionals. It's a mistake that all of us will pay for for the rest of our careers.

PCL128,
Why does the method of propulsion matter? Tell me, what were the DC3s, DC7s, Martin 404s, Connies, and Covair 580s? Were they "mainline" or were they "regional".

Here are some pictures of "regional" airplanes according to PCL128.

http://www.aviation-history.com/lockheed/1049.html


http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,1417,00.html

Joe

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

PCL128,
Why does the method of propulsion matter? Tell me, what were the DC3s, DC7s, Martin 404s, Connies, and Covair 580s? Were they "mainline" or were they "regional".

Here are some pictures of "regional" airplanes according to PCL128.

http://www.aviation-history.com/lockheed/1049.html


http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,1417,00.html

Joe

Um, that's what I said, Yo.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Personal attacks aside, he was absolutely correct. If ALPA had stuck to a simple rule of jet aircraft stay at mainline none of this would be a problem...

Actually, the mistake ALPA made was allowing the "prop" aircraft to leave the property. This is how the camel got his nose in the tent. Former ALPA Pres. Randy Babbitt, who allowed this to happen at Eastern, admits this was a mistake. Now we have the current mess.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Um, that's what I said, Yo.

We were both responding to PCL128 at about the same time. Your exactly right PropCapt. Sounds to me like those who like to talk about "SJS" are the ones who suffer most from it. Sounds like PCL 128 suffers from "SJS".

Joe

 

[Tim47SIP]

There comming!

Scope involves seats and that is something management can't get around unless ALPA allows it.

Well, we all know how effective ALPA has been. Just ask all those carriers with their no furlough clauses. For the last 15 years, ALPA has been trying to manipulate the system for the advantage of the big five. The arogance has become so thick and the blinders so large, that the industry just did a sidestep and shot around them. ALPA is now looking around trying to figure out what happened. If they would have been a little more concerned with all flying instead of just the cool stuff, we wouldnt be having this conversation. My guess is that you WILL see up to 110 seat aircraft at DCI, Mesa, etc. Should it happen at all? Absolutely not! But with JB rates where they areas well as LCC competition, management will be forced to persue and emulate those pay and operating structures. There is no way mainline will stoop to that low of pay. If they do, we are all in trouble. I guess they are screwed if they do, and screwed if they dont. What an industry we are in!!!