E-190s at Airtran?

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

*snicker*



p.s. Anyone have more info what the NC meant by being "highly disappointed" in the company's compensation response?

Wonder if things will slow down again now?

I can take a guess.

 

[tubelcane]

I think it means they were terribly unhappy, sorry had to say it.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I think it means they were terribly unhappy, sorry had to say it.

I'm thinking more like egotistical greed has overcome reason once again. (Age 60, SAPII, the idea of info picketing to name a few others)

 

[Lear70]

I'm thinking more like egotistical greed has overcome reason once again.

Yeah, management keeps wanting "cost-neutral" from a pilot group that has the lowest CASM in the industry, along with 2nd lowest overall pay in the industry, all while the company is profitable, growing, and forecasting even better profits this year than last.

They're gonna have to share. Cost-neutral ain't gonna cut it.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Yeah, management keeps wanting "cost-neutral" from a pilot group that has the lowest CASM in the industry, along with 2nd lowest overall pay in the industry, all while the company is profitable, growing, and forecasting even better profits this year than last.

They're gonna have to share. Cost-neutral ain't gonna cut it.

They always forecast better profits but it never seems to happen. We HAVE to be cheaper than the others. We don't have as much to offer.

I've been to airlinecentral.com like most have. How do you figure the second lowest? It just doesn't add up.

 

[Lear70]

Alaska F/O averages $10 an hour (25-30%) higher than our rates and caps out just shy of $100 an hour.

JBlu does the same thing on the Bus, their blended E190 F/O rates are a few bucks higher than ours, also, and they have a 2-3 year upgrade right now on the E190. Ours just went to 3 1/2 - 4 years.

Frontier? $7-10 higher each year than our rates, although with their pay freeze we'll catch up in 2 years, even without a new contract.

Midwest is slightly higher than our rates, even if only marginally.

Southwest? Not even gonna go there.

Those are our only competitors. Even the legacies are higher.

CA rates are still in the lower tier. Check out the DVD the union put out, it has a graph showing where our pilots currently fall compared to our competition.

The only thing that brings us up any is our B-fund matching, and you don't get than until year 2 and aren't fully vested until year 5. Not to mention that doesn't pay the mortgage or feed the kids.

Also don't forget our health insurance is twice as expensive or MORE than any of those airlines, either.

We HAVE to be cheaper than the others. We don't have as much to offer.

That's the kind of thinking that will start costing this company millions of dollars in training a year if they don't start fixing things.

You're exactly right, we don't have as much to offer... pilots that is. If our pay doesn't go up a large chunk, you can expect the attrition to increase.

Again, I don't want to burn the house down, but cost-neutral is a management fantasy that they're just going to have to face.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Alaska F/O averages $10 an hour (25-30%) higher than our rates and caps out just shy of $100 an hour.

JBlu does the same thing on the Bus, their blended E190 F/O rates are a few bucks higher than ours, also, and they have a 2-3 year upgrade right now on the E190. Ours just went to 3 1/2 - 4 years.

Frontier? $7-10 higher each year than our rates, although with their pay freeze we'll catch up in 2 years, even without a new contract.

Midwest is slightly higher than our rates, even if only marginally.

Southwest? Not even gonna go there.

Those are our only competitors. Even the legacies are higher.

CA rates are still in the lower tier. Check out the DVD the union put out, it has a graph showing where our pilots currently fall compared to our competition.

The only thing that brings us up any is our B-fund matching, and you don't get than until year 2 and aren't fully vested until year 5. Not to mention that doesn't pay the mortgage or feed the kids.

Also don't forget our health insurance is twice as expensive or MORE than any of those airlines, either.


That's the kind of thinking that will start costing this company millions of dollars in training a year if they don't start fixing things.

You're exactly right, we don't have as much to offer... pilots that is. If our pay doesn't go up a large chunk, you can expect the attrition to increase.

Again, I don't want to burn the house down, but cost-neutral is a management fantasy that they're just going to have to face.

I'll agree with some of your post. Although, if you look at the legacies, and thats what we really have to compete against, their CA rates are actually often lower that ours. And most of them do not credit as many pay hours as we do per month. You have to look at soft pay rules as well as actaul pay to get a fair comparison.

Flat E-190 rates at Blue are actually lower than our for FO's, and considerably lower for CA's.

SWA? Totally different company, and I don't think it will be too much longer until that party starts to end.

The DVD that never arrived? I don't trust those people as far as I can throw them. Numbers can be made to look like anything you want.

You must consider the B fund as part of compensation. It is an aditional 10.5% pay starting your second year. You don;t have to contribute any of your own money and you still get it. Most other companies that you mentioned above do not do that. Even SWA. And vested in 5 years? Not a bad deal considering you put NOTHING in there.

Can't speak with any certainty about health insurance at other airlines. I do know that compared to many other industries, we actually have a pretty good deal here.

When I said we don't have as much to offer, I was not refering to the pilots.
I was refering to AirTran, we don't have as much to offer to the flying public as say, United. Our only advantage is cheaper tickets.

 

[jonjuan]

That's the kind of thinking that will start costing this company millions of dollars in training a year if they don't start fixing things.

You're exactly right, we don't have as much to offer... pilots that is. If our pay doesn't go up a large chunk, you can expect the attrition to increase.

Yawn. They would love nothing better than to have the top of the seniority list leave. There will always be qualified pilots lining up to work at airtrain. The pay is better than any regional. Most regional pilots meet the mins to work there. Why should they pay more when the market doesn't dictate so?

 

[FLB717]

FlyFastLiveSlow, what have you done to support your Union and help your Company? I believe both can be accomplished with care.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

FlyFastLiveSlow, what have you done to support your Union and help your Company? I believe both can be accomplished with care.

I agree. I'm sick of unrealistic crap that people say though. The "We deserve" mentality. I want a fair contract, I also want people to keep flying on us. That means cheap fares. I ALSO want a job 20 years from now. The average family of four in this country makes $65,000 per year. I'm not suggesting that we should not make more, just keep it in perspective.

And why should I respect our union leadership? AP, in his campaign letter said he reduced our union dues. As I recall, they were increased for a "war chest" right after his election, and have not come down since. Also, a probationary FO now has to pay after his third month. Even MORE $ for the NPA. In other words, that was a lie. Returning SAP II to fax and email?? Why? Because of a few whiners? Now there is NO accountabilty for SAP II. Support of the age 60 rule announced in a major newpaper? I wasn't polled, were you? Wasting money on a printed hotel guide and postage when one is available on-line? Why? Negotiating at HPN instead of MCO and ATL while you and I foot the hotel and dinner bills? For what? The list goes on. SH is on our NC, after the corruption during the last contract? Let's not forget the seeming inability to return any emails or phone calls regarding virtually anything. And don't tell me they are too busy. I tried repeatedly to volunteer my time, and no one even had the courtesy to call me back and say "no". Now, ask me again why I don't offer a lot of support. It's no wonder MGT behaves the way they do with our union people.