E-190s at Airtran?

[Nindiri]

I wonder if management, behind it's closed doors, talks about the need to be reasonable and offer pilots a fair contract.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I wonder if management, behind it's closed doors, talks about the need to be reasonable and offer pilots a fair contract.

I'll bet they do. But fair is relative. Fair means two different things I'm sure.

 

[j41driver]

LFFS,
A Union works much like the U.S. House and Senate, you put the Officers in with your vote and they do what they feel is right. They dont always make the right choice be it NPA or ALPA

There are a lot of MEC's within ALPA that use membership ratification on all potential side letters/agreements that have a material affect on the pilot group. Much better way to go than what we have in the NPA.

 

[j41driver]

No, they do not, and they can't. We have 1400+ pilots. It's simple, just like we voted for union officers. Each pilot logs on, votes simply "yes or no", and then the union releases the results of the referendum as to whether or not to support it. Done. EVERY PILOT needs the opportunity to voice on this issue. We are small enough that on an issue like this, it is simple to have a true vote.

Amen brother!

 

[j41driver]

Looks like someone failed statistics.

I was polled and I voted against it. Most pilots here disagree with me. I can accept that. The polling was done correctly and is a fair representation of the collective will of the pilot group.

Does CNN and USAToday poll every American when they report Bush's approval ratings?

Hell, if it's so perfect then why not use the Wilson Center for ratifying the new contract. I mean, it would be way too hard to ask all 1400 pilots.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Hell, if it's so perfect then why not use the Wilson Center for ratifying the new contract. I mean, it would be way too hard to ask all 1400 pilots.

Thank you, Ty Webb should be happy with that too.

 

[Benhuntn]

I was at Hooters and I heard it was 2 for one for but I am not sure if it was E-190's or not.

 

[FlyAirtran]

Im with you FlyFastLiveSlow. All very well said. You make very good points. I definitely want some improvements to the contract but I dont want to put my company out of business just because some CA has a $3800 interest only mortgage (yes actual story) and is on his cell phone in the cockpit arguing with his wife because she needs new tires on their minivan but he cant afford to .... but hey his house is on the water, right?? Then begins to say to you that he doesnt make enough money. wtf?!!? Im makin $56 an hour and you cant make it happen?!!! We all need to make more money at Airtran, no doubt about it!! But this sounds like poor financial planning. How much more do you guys want? What is fair? Im really interested in your answer. Fedex Pay, UPS? Southwest? When we make as much as those guys do per quarter, then I will want a bigger piece of the pie. Right now I want a raise and better work rules and I dont want to put my company out of business or piss off any passengers. Age 60??? wtF??? nobody asked me! Had they, I would have said no.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Im sorry but I have not talk with any CA that has a problem with there rates. Its the FO rates that they have problem with, which are way behind. Im sure there are the CA that are starving with his 5 wifes , but that is a very small minority.
I love are the flying we do, but if the rates dont come up the flood gates will open and staffing will be come a major issue. A lot of FO are on the fence.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Im with you FlyFastLiveSlow. All very well said. You make very good points. I definitely want some improvements to the contract but I dont want to put my company out of business just because some CA has a $3800 interest only mortgage (yes actual story) and is on his cell phone in the cockpit arguing with his wife because she needs new tires on their minivan but he cant afford to .... but hey his house is on the water, right?? Then begins to say to you that he doesnt make enough money. wtf?!!? Im makin $56 an hour and you cant make it happen?!!! We all need to make more money at Airtran, no doubt about it!! But this sounds like poor financial planning. How much more do you guys want? What is fair? Im really interested in your answer. Fedex Pay, UPS? Southwest? When we make as much as those guys do per quarter, then I will want a bigger piece of the pie. Right now I want a raise and better work rules and I dont want to put my company out of business or piss off any passengers. Age 60??? wtF??? nobody asked me! Had they, I would have said no.

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Thanks for the support my friend.

 

[FlyAirtran]

FO rates definitely have to come up. The 2 year upgrade is over and gone we are all gonna be FO's much much longer.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

FO rates definitely have to come up. The 2 year upgrade is over and gone we are all gonna be FO's much much longer.

What do you think is a good rate for 2nd year?

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

$65 in hour

 

[AFcitrus]

There are few on this board with unwaivering support of the union on EVERY issue. That shows greatly loyalty. Now (contract negotiations) is the time to shoot for the moon and get whatever we can get in a new contract. I'm all for that and I support our union.

My problem with regards to the age 60 issue being legimate is this:

1)We may have had two polls but the first was 4-5 year ago when the pilot group had 40-50% fewer pilots. Many of the pilots hired in the last 4-5 years are younger and would have voted against the age increase. Also when that poll was taken the age 60 legislation wasn't even a blip on a radar screen so many pollees did not give it the weight they would have if the legislation were more realistic at the time. So the results of that poll mean nothing.

2)The problem with the second poll is that two months before I was polled on the issue AP made a statement in one of his emails and/or website that the NPA was supporting the legislation. Anyone else see a problem with the timing here. Unless AP is Nostradamus he woudn't have known the outcome of the poll when he decided the NPA would support the legislation. A friend of mine called him on it at the time the statement was made and was told the statement of support was based on previous polling. See number 1) above for problems with this statement.

It's okay for you guys to support your union but try to keep an objective mind when it comes to some of the information comming from AP. If he can ramrod his age 60 legislation down our throats and say the NPA supports it then what else is he capable of doing that are in HIS best interests.

 

[j41driver]

It's okay for you guys to support your union but try to keep an objective mind when it comes to some of the information comming from AP. If he can ramrod his age 60 legislation down our throats and say the NPA supports it then what else is he capable of doing that are in HIS best interests.

Very, very true. I don't know the guy from Adam but that whole thing sure made me very suspicious of his intentions.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Very, very true. I don't know the guy from Adam but that whole thing sure made me very suspicious of his intentions.

Which is why it should have been to a vote. Like LFFS posted earlier. Log on and vote yes or no. Password protected - can only vote once - your own dumb fault if you dont vote. Just like we did the vote for NPA officers.
OBTW - I support the age 65 change but I am upset that we did not do a vote of all members before the NPA anounced our position.

I think SAP 2 going back to the old fashion way was a case of the loudest getting their way. I liked the FLICA method. I think the criteria needed some adjustment but I hope we go back to the FLICA method. I emailed the "sap2 problems" email with my inputs. I just wish they had asked before they went and canceled it.

I agree that it seems that emails to the NPA often go unanswered. Anybody home over there?

 

[Lear70]

As an aside, does anyone think we'll get more than 60% to even vote on the TA when it comes due to the apathy here?

You know, I keep hearing the NPA elected officials say that but the voter turnout for the election was over 70%.

That's actually a pretty respectable number, IF the pilots are as apathetic as people say they are.

My belief is we have a very UNRESPONSIVE pilot group, versus an "apathetic" pilot group. I believe more people are paying attention and know EXACTLY what they want than what a lot of folks believe, they're just keeping it to themselves.

When it comes time to vote, I bet the turnout is in the 90% range. Just my .02 cents.

There are a lot of MEC's within ALPA that use membership ratification on all potential side letters/agreements that have a material affect on the pilot group. Much better way to go than what we have in the NPA.

BINGO!

Maybe it's time for a resolution at the next BOD meeting...?

Now (contract negotiations) is the time to shoot for the moon and get whatever we can get in a new contract. I'm all for that and I support our union.

BINGO! (again)

In negotiations you don't shoot for your true "target", you start out a lot HIGHER than that and work your way back down. I'm sure I don't have the big picture, but those NPA-proposed rates on the F/O side pretty much SUCK... No offense.

I think SAP 2 going back to the old fashion way was a case of the loudest getting their way. I liked the FLICA method. I think the criteria needed some adjustment but I hope we go back to the FLICA method. I emailed the "sap2 problems" email with my inputs. I just wish they had asked before they went and canceled it.

I don't know anyone who LIKES that we went back to paper bids, but I ran into an awful lot of Captains who weren't having ANY luck with SAP II via FLICA.

Once they put all the constraints in FLICA, it's screwed up my life as well. I went from being able to get rid of all my weekends and credit 90 hours with 15 days off to having to work ALL the weekends and credit 10 hours less with the same number of days off.

Their artificial "multiplier" for weekends in FLICA is just plain overinflated. Until it's fixed, I don't see any reason to go back to using it.

 

[likeitis]

I have delt with Klaus/Kolski numerous times. I've seen Kolski erupt throw a v-file full of blank paper across the room during an arbitration (it was a prop). You can't imaging the mentality and tactics they use unless you've experienced it yourself. The current NPA administration is doing a hell of a job considering the circumstances they are up against and lack of support they are receiving from the line.

I keep seeing questions on numerous boards about why the Midwest pilots aren't for this merger. This stuff is well known to our pilot group. Alpa has dealt with Kolski and Leonard plenty in the past.
A question for the few kool aid drinkers following this thread. Why was Leonard let go from NWA in 93? It was the IAM who made it a part of their concessionary contract that Leonard must leave. I think that it speaks volumes when someone will take negotiating equity just to remove an individual. I've personally dealt with Kolski and Klaus and would rather masturbate with a cheese grater while bathing with lemonade.

 

[humveedriver]

The subject of the thread was E-190's at AirTran and we got 7 eloquent pages of company dirty laundry and the negotiation play by play. But it was all worth it for the cheese grater and lemonade visual, who can top that one!

 

[c9skytrain]

Agree with Humveedriver.
We Trannie pilots are definitely eager to take to FI at the drop of a hat.