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blzr said:Thanks for jumping in Duke. Couldn't have said it better myself. Skykiddo is drinking some serious lav juice.
Those people that make the decisions at the top should have seen this thing coming, in the same way you see a TS on the radar and take action before you are actually in the darn thing. The fact that they didn't is one of two things, ignorance or apathy. Which is it?
BigDuke
I can't think of another company who has damaged business ethics more than UAL. It may be legal, but it's sick and wrong. Does ANYONE like coming to work there? My two friends don't. The company needs to go away.I guess we are talking about just airlines.....Enron and WorldCom don't count?
Big Duke Six said:Those were FRAUD cases. United has pushed to new depths of what are "legal" and "accepted" business practices. They are accepted now because the employees there let them get away with it. Yes, it inevitably had to happen, but I would have demanded mgmt share in the pain. I'm not convinced they did.
BTW, I do see the big picture. Its called "Principle". Look into it.
skykid said:"Yes, I'll save United and do it for free." ... You and a few others are hung up on the "evil mgt" bit. Ruining thousands of jobs industry wide!?!
Big Duke Six said:YOU are looking at this objectively? Are you freaking kidding me?
QUOTE:
"Your're right, he could have given everybody a raise and still be sucsessful with exit financing."
He robbed your company! I guess if you are a blind UAL employee, you'd think he was doing a good job. If you're the rest of us, you'd see the COMPLETE lack of integrity, ethics, character and leadership this man has shown. You'd see the damage he has done to not only the rest of the industry but to the rest of the country as well as a result of these shortcomings.
You apparently do not know what "lack of integrity" means, judging from your responses to the posts above. Understand that his degree of sharing in the suffering that resulted from his decisions is exactly ZERO. He robbed everyone else, all of you, and laughs quietly all the way to the bank. This behavior does not show integrity.
QUOTE:
"The potential providers of that exit financing have made it clear that U, United, and the other legacy carriers headed for bankruptcy aren't coming out with defined benefit retirement plans."
And to top it off, you blame the "providers" of the potential exit financing for eliminating the pensions? You mean they have all come together and collectively decided that NO LEGACY CARRIER IN THE US WILL EMERGE FROM BANKRUPTCY WITH A DEFINED BENEFIT PLAN? That's rich, and delusional. I don't doubt it is the future of our industry, but don't try to tell me it was a banker who decided it for United AND will now impose it on ALL other companies trying to reorganize.
QUOTE:
"I would hope in a similar situation I would negotiate the best possible deal for myself as well."
To the expense of everyone else, you'd demand a fortune to ensure your own financial well-being, then ruin hundreds of thousands of jobs (industry-wide) to "save" 90,000? That tells us everything we need to know about your character.
Any unethical hack could have come in and done what he did. It does NOT take a special person to first completely insulate himself from the ramifications of his actions then wage a war on labor that will reverberate for decades and affect hundreds of thousands of people before the dust settles. Tilton has changed business ethics forever, and I don't think that is anything to be proud of.