Dont think scope is a huge deal?

[Full of LUV]

Not mastermind, enablers....

I have a hard time seeing your logic on how the Republic line pilots masterminded this 'coup'.

I don't think anyone thinks they masterminded it, just enable it by facilitating the smooth transfer of a company's good reputation with a substantially cheaper workforce.....

 

[Flightdawg]

I love how management gets away with ALL OF THE BUSINESS DECISIONS and all of the widgets here blame each other.

Agreed. We're our own worst enemies. The blame game explains why it is virtually impossible to form a true national union since too many pilots were so wrapped up in themselves, they would fail to see the larger picture. It's business. The real culprit is airline deregulation. The only solution to this problem I keep hearing is telling a kid fresh out of flight school to not take a job until he has more experience. It is naive to think a young pilot would pass up an opportunity to make two to three times the money flying for a Part 121 regional rather than slaving away in a C-172.

Further, I'll hazard a guess that the majority of the pilots bitching about the race to the bottom and pilots working for lower pay are also staunch, pro-business Republicans against "socialized" anything.

 

[dougdrvr]

I like how everyone seems to be ignoring your post. Good questions though, esspecially 4.

It's a great question, and the answer is, they were non-union and as such, were at will employees. They were a great bunch and did a helluva job but with no legal backing they were just a cost index to management. No one cares how good a job you do.

 

[Popeye0537]

That is just sad. How can we let this happen anymore.... I am at a loss for words right now. It never did hit me what this all meant until seeing that video. You think it is just words on an internet screen or an article in a paper, but when you watch that viedo it makes perfect sense now......now I am pissed, we need to protect our jobs from these undercutting regional pukes.

I guess ATA should have made a similar video for you to watch. How many lives did Southwest ruin with that one? Were you pissed off then or just happy to see your upgrade times falling?

 

[Cometman]

I guess ATA should have made a similar video for you to watch. How many lives did Southwest ruin with that one? Were you pissed off then or just happy to see your upgrade times falling?

Totally differnt cases. ATA was nothing like this casse. Go back and read what happened to ATA and then tell me it is the same thing.
It is also possible that a lot of guys that are watching this video were not even around when ATA went under. You should be careful accusing someone before knowing all the facts.

 

[AvroGuy]

It's a great question, and the answer is, they were non-union and as such, were at will employees. They were a great bunch and did a helluva job but with no legal backing they were just a cost index to management. No one cares how good a job you do.

So since they were non-uninon there should be no outrage at getting fired then rehired at a lower wage. Ultimately we, pilots, should be pointing the finger at our selves. If you came from the civilian world you started out at a low pay job and moved up. The pilots at the top gave away the bottom of "their" flying so they could protect something like pay, retierment, work rules or whatever. We end up choosing what is best for us because I know you will not pay my morgage, feed my kids, or keep my electric on. For the better of the proffesion or not, that is the way it is. It is also something called free enterprise. Don't blame the pilots, blame the managers who made the poor decisions that ran the airline into the ground.

 

[EMBPILOT1]

I know several Republic pilots and and believe there are two types over there. One group, mostly senior guys who have been around for a while, are as embarrassed for what their management is doing with the company and other pilot groups. Then you have the junior guys(not all), who don't give a crap about anything other than their job and their quickest way to the left seat. Midwest flying is just another avenue for an upgrade or greater seniority. What I have learned in life though is, what comes around, goes around. For those who are happy for the fact that these midwest pilots are losing their jobs while the me me me generation gets the flying at half the pay, someday you might get yours!

 

[relief tube]

Super,

It is disgusting. The republic guys are the closest things to SCABS as we have in our generation. Thru PEBs, bankruptcy courts, etc there have been no strikes, BUT there has been opportunist(SCABS) amongst us. They will not be allowed on my jumpseat and super you don't have to accept one on yours as an FO if it will interfere with your job. My personal feeling is ALPA natl. needs to come out and label them as such and deny them the privilege.

I

How do you figure? Midwest going away wouldn't have happened if they were making money, and no airlines are making money today because we have $39 fares. The 4 or 5 airlines out there with $39 fares are the real fault of all this BS.

 

[samballs]

You guys know some Delta pilot is on here saying "They can have them I ain't flying that trainer plane"

 

[runwayjockey]

I guess ATA should have made a similar video for you to watch. How many lives did Southwest ruin with that one? Were you pissed off then or just happy to see your upgrade times falling?

Your logic is flawed. ATA sold gates to SWA to raise cash. Established a codeshare with SWA to increase cashflow. Only to have everthing dismantled by G.A.L. when they decided it was not cost effective to continue whipsawing them against World Air Holdings.

The pilots of SWA did not subsidize the take over of ATA with substandard wages. How can you argue that industry leading wages were used to underbid ATA operations by the pilots of SWA.

What it comes down to is there are way too many pilots and when supply exceeds demand, prices (wages) drop. As long as we have people willing to fly planes for $20000 a year we will see no improvement from wages being depressed. Like so many others have tried to explain to you before, we have nobody else to blame but ourselves!

 

[runwayjockey]

So since they were non-uninon there should be no outrage at getting fired then rehired at a lower wage. Ultimately we, pilots, should be pointing the finger at our selves. If you came from the civilian world you started out at a low pay job and moved up. The pilots at the top gave away the bottom of "their" flying so they could protect something like pay, retierment, work rules or whatever. We end up choosing what is best for us because I know you will not pay my morgage, feed my kids, or keep my electric on. For the better of the proffesion or not, that is the way it is. It is also something called free enterprise. Don't blame the pilots, blame the managers who made the poor decisions that ran the airline into the ground.

Many of us were furloughed including myself that made the choice not to go back to a flying job paying $20000 a year but hold out for one paying a livable wage. Many more have decided not to come back to the industry ever! I choose not to label myself a VICTIM.

It is a shame how the rampers were treated at YX, it was disgusting. However, I do believe that a pilot has a greater vested interest in his career when you look at the cost of training, years of experience required to get hired at a major, not too mention the impact the jobs has on your quality of life. I am not defending what happened but merely sugesting that the level of outrage may be proportional to the vested interest each employee had in their job.

 

[414Flyer]

You guys know some Delta pilot is on here saying "They can have them I ain't flying that trainer plane"

And that hubris, is a factor why we have alter ego/express carriers with jets that would have formerly been at the majors. If they could have only checked their ego and not given the farm in terms of airplanes. Sure at first maybe it was only 50 seat CRJs...and then those jets just got bigger and bigger, so now they carry more passengers than many DC-9s did.

While its made more jobs at the regionals, its actually made life there probably worse. Instead of just flying a junkstream for a while then moving up to a major, people are stuck at the regionals, on this never ending merry go round of contracts switched between different majors, resulting in frequent hiring, frequent furloughs, and pilots who have ended up working for multiple regional airlines, with no end in sight to a job that can sometimes now just be a depressing nightmare that happens to be in planes that would have paid much more not that long ago at a major.

I saw on here not that long ago, a pilot for a Major Airline blaming regional pilots or it all and talking about "taking all that flying back". Well good, take it all back, but why the F did you all give it again to begin with? Maybe some people at the majors have size issues they have a complex about.

 

[regionaltard]

I saw on here not that long ago, a pilot for a Major Airline blaming regional pilots or it all and talking about "taking all that flying back". Well good, take it all back, but why the F did you all give it again to begin with? Maybe some people at the majors have size issues they have a complex about.

Yep, it's funny how reluctant the "take it back" crowd is to acknowledge what a colossal screw-up giving it away in the first place was.

 

[Jetjockey]

For the record, Midwest had a scope clause. A very weak 2 paragraphs large enough to fly an EMB-190 through it.

 

[AvroGuy]

Many of us were furloughed including myself that made the choice not to go back to a flying job paying $20000 a year but hold out for one paying a livable wage. Many more have decided not to come back to the industry ever! I choose not to label myself a VICTIM.

It is a shame how the rampers were treated at YX, it was disgusting. However, I do believe that a pilot has a greater vested interest in his career when you look at the cost of training, years of experience required to get hired at a major, not too mention the impact the jobs has on your quality of life. I am not defending what happened but merely sugesting that the level of outrage may be proportional to the vested interest each employee had in their job.

I can see your points. I think we are more vocal about our, pilots in general, becuase of our vested interest. Like you said in other words. I know very little about what went on, but if in that last flight video was an indication to the averge load of the plane the airline was going to fail eventually. Mgmt not doing a very good job of marketing maybe? among other things