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Dont think scope is a huge deal?

crj567

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get2flyin

Flyinawa!
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That pilot group showed one hell of a lot of class. I hope we don't see many (ANY) more of these type of videos in the future. It's about time we ALL stand together as a group of professionals like these pilots did instead of a bunch of self-serving, "it's all about me" oriented prima donnas. Their courage gives me hope for the rest of us. Tonight, let's all raise a glass in their honor.
 

Cobraair75drvr

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Super,

It is disgusting. The republic guys are the closest things to SCABS as we have in our generation. Thru PEBs, bankruptcy courts, etc there have been no strikes, BUT there has been opportunist(SCABS) amongst us. They will not be allowed on my jumpseat and super you don't have to accept one on yours as an FO if it will interfere with your job. My personal feeling is ALPA natl. needs to come out and label them as such and deny them the privilege.



I
Watch this video about the last Midwest Flight!

http://www.alpa.tv/DesktopModules/UltraVideoGallery/UltraVideoGallery.swf?vId=281&portalId=14

Wish only the best to you Midwest Guys! I hope you guys land on your feet asap! I was in MKE the other day and was very disgusted by what I saw.
 

RedDogC130

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enough
That is just sad. How can we let this happen anymore.... I am at a loss for words right now. It never did hit me what this all meant until seeing that video. You think it is just words on an internet screen or an article in a paper, but when you watch that viedo it makes perfect sense now......now I am pissed, we need to protect our jobs from these undercutting regional pukes.
 
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Erlanger

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Anyone tell me how scope would of protected them or any other pilot group from the same situation cause I'm not seeing it.

I'm not being a smartass so don't be flaming away at me. Lets have an intelligent conversation please.
 

crj567

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Anyone tell me how scope would of protected them or any other pilot group from the same situation cause I'm not seeing it.

I'm not being a smartass so don't be flaming away at me. Lets have an intelligent conversation please.

Well-Let's see.... How many other airlines outsourced 100% of their flying to some scumbag operation like Republic?

-100%?!!!

-Has 100% outsourcing like this happened before? Seriously?
 
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Skybus

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lots
Frontier meet YOUR new dance partner.

Bus

Well-Let's see.... How many other airlines outsourced 100% of their flying to some scumbag operation like Republic?

-100%?!!!

-Has 100% outsourcing like this happened before? Seriously?
 

SLOTH

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That video was very well done, but depressing. Couple of questions.
1. Is Hoeksema (sp?) off the hook now after running the place into the ground before Republic bought them?
2. Why do some of you insist on mis-using the term SCAB?
3. Is NWA (DAL) and TPG to be held harmless in all of this?
4. Where was the outrage when the ground personnel were fired and then re-hired under Skyway for a fraction of the pay?
 

ultrarunner

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I think this is an outrage.... I have never heard how this happened-did they not have a scope clause at all?

No scope, or very vague and weak language in their CBA that didn't stand up to legal scrutiny when the MidEx MEC challenged the outsourcing.

This video should be required viewing for every union member that thinks they can't be outsourced!

I feel bad for F9 guys, since that's going to be the next video!

Ultra
 

dooork

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That is just sad. How can we let this happen anymore.... I am at a loss for words right now. It never did hit me what this all meant until seeing that video. You think it is just words on an internet screen or an article in a paper, but when you watch that viedo it makes perfect sense now......now I am pissed, we need to protect our jobs from these undercutting regional pukes.

It didn't hit you and left you speechless because you have been in la-la land. I understand the need for airlines to outsource liability and capitol for other aircraft....but not the crew. So, next time you big major airline pilots get to the negotiation table tell them that they may let Mesa, ASA, Republic...etc take the liability on the aircraft but the crew are mainline!
We'll see if you let it happen again.
 

The Drizzle

I is a Airline Pilot!
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Super,

It is disgusting. The republic guys are the closest things to SCABS as we have in our generation. Thru PEBs, bankruptcy courts, etc there have been no strikes, BUT there has been opportunist(SCABS) amongst us. They will not be allowed on my jumpseat and super you don't have to accept one on yours as an FO if it will interfere with your job. My personal feeling is ALPA natl. needs to come out and label them as such and deny them the privilege.



I

I'm sure it feels good to say it, but it doesn't make it the truth. Grow up.
 

maxblast72

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I feel bad for F9 guys, since that's going to be the next video!
Frontier is different. Frontier is current profitable (according to Republic executives on the conference call) and has a airframe (Airbus) that has a very competitive cost structure.

Tim Hoeksma had no long term business plan or strategy and lost alot of money in this decade. Tim then lost control of the company when he had to take the Northwest/TPG deal to prevent Airtran from taking his company. Tim never was able to find the money to order aircraft that would have made Midwest a viable company. Northwest/TPG just kept them alive long enough to prevent Airtran from taking over MKE. Eventually, Northwest/TPG decided to stop pumping money into Midwest and sold to Republic.

Profitability (or lack thereof) is a bigger deal in the demise of Midwest's pilots careers than scope. Lack of profitability falls squarely at the feet of Tim Hoeksma, not the pilots of Midwest or ALPA.
 

Cometman

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It didn't hit you and left you speechless because you have been in la-la land. I understand the need for airlines to outsource liability and capitol for other aircraft....but not the crew. So, next time you big major airline pilots get to the negotiation table tell them that they may let Mesa, ASA, Republic...etc take the liability on the aircraft but the crew are mainline!
We'll see if you let it happen again.

Your screen name says it all.
 

ultrarunner

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Frontier is different. Frontier is current profitable (according to Republic executives on the conference call) and has a airframe (Airbus) that has a very competitive cost structure.

I guess I just wouldn't assume that every route F9 is operating with the airbus is safe from getting replaced with a E170 or E190. But I have been wrong before...
 

runwayjockey

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Frontier is different. Frontier is current profitable (according to Republic executives on the conference call) and has a airframe (Airbus) that has a very competitive cost structure.

Tim Hoeksma had no long term business plan or strategy and lost alot of money in this decade. Tim then lost control of the company when he had to take the Northwest/TPG deal to prevent Airtran from taking his company. Tim never was able to find the money to order aircraft that would have made Midwest a viable company. Northwest/TPG just kept them alive long enough to prevent Airtran from taking over MKE. Eventually, Northwest/TPG decided to stop pumping money into Midwest and sold to Republic.

Profitability (or lack thereof) is a bigger deal in the demise of Midwest's pilots careers than scope. Lack of profitability falls squarely at the feet of Tim Hoeksma, not the pilots of Midwest or ALPA.

There is no doubt Hoeksma sold his employees down the river. However to say that scope played no part in preventing YX pilots from losing their jobs really is not telling the whole story. The Midwest Brand name is worth something to RAH and it was worth a whole lot more if the pilots of YX didn't come along with it.

By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Posted: Sept. 4, 2008

Midwest Airlines Inc. may have found a way to dodge a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing — but its new source of cash will result in the loss of another 270 jobs at the financially troubled airline.
Midwest Airlines has agreed to lease a dozen Embraer 170 jets from Indianapolis-based Republic Airways Holdings, beginning Oct. 1, it was announced Wednesday. The jets will be flown and maintained by Republic employees for the first year or so, which is why Midwest will be laying off some of its workers. Those will be the latest in a series of major job cuts for the Oak Creek-based company, which will end up with 45% of the work force it had when the year began.
Republic, to secure the 10-year lease, agreed to provide a one-year, $15 million loan to cash-strapped Midwest. Republic has a separate loan commitment of another $10 million for Midwest if the company achieves certain financial goals.
Republic's $25 million in financing is part of up to $60 million in new cash for Midwest. The airline said the new cash represents significant progress in its financial restructuring plan.
The other chief financing source is TPG Capital, the Fort Worth, Texas-based investment firm that owns 53% of Midwest. Northwest Airlines Corp., which owns 47% of the airline and already has written off its $213 million investment in Midwest, is providing a small portion of the added financing, said Midwest spokesman Michael Brophy.
Including the TPG cash, Midwest has received $40 million, with another $20 million in reserve if the company achieves its financial goals, said Timothy Hoeksema, Midwest chairman and chief executive officer.


RAH obviously thought enough of the Midwest brand name to keep it going or they would have already painted these planes in F9 colors. In fact, to simply kill off the Midwest Brand name in MKE would have done very little good for RAH. Had scope been put in place how might the current merger situation be playing out with YX, F9 and RAH pilots?
 

Paul R. Smith

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Very SAD.

One word sums this all up for me...Integrity. Midwest crews have it.

Best of luck to the flightcrew members of Midwest Airlines. I wish you all the best.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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Very SAD.

One word sums this all up for me...Integrity. Midwest crews have it.

Best of luck to the flightcrew members of Midwest Airlines. I wish you all the best.


Agreed.

I wouldn't have blamed them setting down that last flight on a short field someplace and walking off.

"Getting this airplane out of here is going to require a bunch of wrenches and a flat bad."
 
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