Dont think scope is a huge deal?

[Cometman]

It didn't hit you and left you speechless because you have been in la-la land. I understand the need for airlines to outsource liability and capitol for other aircraft....but not the crew. So, next time you big major airline pilots get to the negotiation table tell them that they may let Mesa, ASA, Republic...etc take the liability on the aircraft but the crew are mainline!
We'll see if you let it happen again.

Your screen name says it all.

 

[ultrarunner]

Frontier is different. Frontier is current profitable (according to Republic executives on the conference call) and has a airframe (Airbus) that has a very competitive cost structure.

I guess I just wouldn't assume that every route F9 is operating with the airbus is safe from getting replaced with a E170 or E190. But I have been wrong before...

 

[runwayjockey]

Frontier is different. Frontier is current profitable (according to Republic executives on the conference call) and has a airframe (Airbus) that has a very competitive cost structure.

Tim Hoeksma had no long term business plan or strategy and lost alot of money in this decade. Tim then lost control of the company when he had to take the Northwest/TPG deal to prevent Airtran from taking his company. Tim never was able to find the money to order aircraft that would have made Midwest a viable company. Northwest/TPG just kept them alive long enough to prevent Airtran from taking over MKE. Eventually, Northwest/TPG decided to stop pumping money into Midwest and sold to Republic.

Profitability (or lack thereof) is a bigger deal in the demise of Midwest's pilots careers than scope. Lack of profitability falls squarely at the feet of Tim Hoeksma, not the pilots of Midwest or ALPA.

There is no doubt Hoeksma sold his employees down the river. However to say that scope played no part in preventing YX pilots from losing their jobs really is not telling the whole story. The Midwest Brand name is worth something to RAH and it was worth a whole lot more if the pilots of YX didn't come along with it.

By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Posted: Sept. 4, 2008

Midwest Airlines Inc. may have found a way to dodge a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing — but its new source of cash will result in the loss of another 270 jobs at the financially troubled airline.
Midwest Airlines has agreed to lease a dozen Embraer 170 jets from Indianapolis-based Republic Airways Holdings, beginning Oct. 1, it was announced Wednesday. The jets will be flown and maintained by Republic employees for the first year or so, which is why Midwest will be laying off some of its workers. Those will be the latest in a series of major job cuts for the Oak Creek-based company, which will end up with 45% of the work force it had when the year began.
Republic, to secure the 10-year lease, agreed to provide a one-year, $15 million loan to cash-strapped Midwest. Republic has a separate loan commitment of another $10 million for Midwest if the company achieves certain financial goals.
Republic's $25 million in financing is part of up to $60 million in new cash for Midwest. The airline said the new cash represents significant progress in its financial restructuring plan.
The other chief financing source is TPG Capital, the Fort Worth, Texas-based investment firm that owns 53% of Midwest. Northwest Airlines Corp., which owns 47% of the airline and already has written off its $213 million investment in Midwest, is providing a small portion of the added financing, said Midwest spokesman Michael Brophy.
Including the TPG cash, Midwest has received $40 million, with another $20 million in reserve if the company achieves its financial goals, said Timothy Hoeksema, Midwest chairman and chief executive officer.


RAH obviously thought enough of the Midwest brand name to keep it going or they would have already painted these planes in F9 colors. In fact, to simply kill off the Midwest Brand name in MKE would have done very little good for RAH. Had scope been put in place how might the current merger situation be playing out with YX, F9 and RAH pilots?

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Very SAD.

One word sums this all up for me...Integrity. Midwest crews have it.

Best of luck to the flightcrew members of Midwest Airlines. I wish you all the best.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Very SAD.

One word sums this all up for me...Integrity. Midwest crews have it.

Best of luck to the flightcrew members of Midwest Airlines. I wish you all the best.

Agreed.

I wouldn't have blamed them setting down that last flight on a short field someplace and walking off.

"Getting this airplane out of here is going to require a bunch of wrenches and a flat bad."

 

[maxblast72]

I guess I just wouldn't assume that every route F9 is operating with the airbus is safe from getting replaced with a E170 or E190. But I have been wrong before...

That is probably true. But having the flexibility to move Airbus/E-190/E-170 aircraft between DEN and MKE to bring the right size aircraft to the right markets will probably be good long term for overall profitability of Frontier/Midwest flying. Airbus will be a better fit for some of the west coast flying out of MKE while the E-170/E-190 platform will probably be better for some of the thinner routes of Denver.

Hasn't Bedford/Menke said that the Airbus fleet isn't going to get any smaller? There has to be some concern though that much of the future growth might be E-170/E-190 and not Airbus.

 

[GuppyWN]

Did the Midwest pilots "agree" to the lease from RAH? Did they sign a contract over it?

Were they culpuble in their own demise is what I'm getting at?

Gup

 

[runwayjockey]

Did the Midwest pilots "agree" to the lease from RAH? Did they sign a contract over it?

Were they culpuble in their own demise is what I'm getting at?

Gup

From what was reported they stood their ground, refusing to fly for substandard wages and where replaced with cheaper, less experienced labor. I'm sure someone at YX can comment on what scope was in place.


Milwaukee's Daily Magazine
By Steve Jagler
Special to OnMilwaukee.com
Published July 9, 2008 at 10:24 a.m.

The Midwest Airlines pilots do not plan to even vote on the troubled company's demands that would slash their pay by up to 65 percent, according to Jay Schnedorf, a captain and chairman of the Midwest unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA).
Schnedorf told SBT, "There will be no vote on their proposal. It's unacceptable on its face. We are planning a counter-proposal to present back to the company ... We've told them (company officials) their demands are unacceptable."
Midwest Airlines is demanding that pilots take pay cuts of 45 to 65 percent. Schnedorf said a junior captain's annual salary would drop from $120,000 to $31,000.
With a wife and two children, a pilot earning $31,000 would qualify for the Wisconsin BadgerCare health care program for the working poor, at taxpayers' expense, Schnedorf said.
A Midwest senior captain's salary would drop from $150,000 to $79,000 under the company's proposal, he said.
The company already has furloughed 35 of its 400 pilots and plans to cut its roster of pilots down to 200, Schnedorf said.
Schnedorf noted that the pilots took "deep concessions" to keep the Oak Creek-based company afloat in 2003.
"I made more than $35,000 flying for the company in 1995, with better benefits," Schnedorf said.
The Midwest chapter of the pilots union will meet Thursday morning to discuss their options, Schnedorf said.
Midwest also is demanding that union flight attendants take pay cuts of 34 to 56 percent.
Midwest officials have said the cuts are needed to help the company avoid filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
The majority owner of Midwest's Air Group Inc., the parent company of Midwest Airlines, is TPG Capital of Fort Worth, Texas. Northwest Airlines Corp. owns a 47 percent stake in the venture.
"With the resources these owners have, TPG and Northwest, if they want to get a deal done, they clearly have the ability to buy the time that is needed to do the right things," Schnedorf said.
Meanwhile, "for sale" signs are popping up like dandelions in front of condominiums throughout Oak Creek, as pilots and flight attendants prepare to lose their jobs or take pay cuts that would prevent them from staying in their homes.
Schnedorf said he spent his Fourth of July weekend painting his house, preparing it for sale.
"Pilots are doing several things, looking at how they can cope with this. They all are going through the same things with their homes, their wives and their children," Schnedorf said. "It's a tragic situation, the human impact that's going on."
The pain inflicted by soaring fuel costs is being felt throughout the airline industry.
Discount carrier AirTran Airways told its employees Monday that the company will cut 480 jobs, or more than 5 percent of its workforce, by Sept. 6.
Last week, American Airlines' parent company, AMR Corp., announced it plans to cut nearly 7,000 full-time employees, or 8 percent of its total staff, by the end of 2008. The reductions follow the airline's report that it may cut up to 900 flight attendant jobs.
Meanwhile, Orlando, Fla.-based AirTran's leadership team is keenly watching Midwest's tactical decisions less than a year after Midwest had rebuffed AirTran's hostile takeover bid.
"We'll keep a close eye on the competitive market and take a look at what might change with the Midwest pulldown," said AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver.

 

[redflyer65]

Maxblast,

Keep dreamin'. Good luck.

 

[AvroGuy]

That video was very well done, but depressing. Couple of questions.
1. Is Hoeksema (sp?) off the hook now after running the place into the ground before Republic bought them?
2. Why do some of you insist on mis-using the term SCAB?
3. Is NWA (DAL) and TPG to be held harmless in all of this?
4. Where was the outrage when the ground personnel were fired and then re-hired under Skyway for a fraction of the pay?

I like how everyone seems to be ignoring your post. Good questions though, esspecially 4.

 

[Draginass]

Very sad and shows how ALPA has become a toothless lapdog.

All the while, ALPA and DALPA lobbies the FAA to actually INCREASE the number of flying hours per day.

It'd be comical if it wasn't so pathetic.

 

[Propsync]

I love how management gets away with ALL OF THE BUSINESS DECISIONS and all of the widgets here blame each other. Like moths to bright light. It will happen again.

Avro Guy. Even better. The rampers were moved back to Midwest late last year/earlier this year. I wish I could find a way to blame the Republic pilots for this management decision, but I can't.

 

[runwayjockey]

=Propsync;1907651 I wish I could find a way to blame the Republic pilots for this management decision, but I can't.

Flying planes for 1/2 of what YX pilots make, probably did not play a role in this what so ever! Keep lying to yourself if it makes you feel better!

 

[altimaklr]

Now a lot of these guys are stuck making 1/3 flying for Allegiant. At least Vegas is warmer than MKE.

 

[Propsync]

Flying planes for 1/2 of what YX pilots make, probably did not play a role in this what so ever! Keep lying to yourself if it makes you feel better!

I don't work for an airline. I just hate the ignorance of the FI wizards that think Midwest was some well oiled machine that got taken down by pilots that were paid less. Get real. Midwest MANAGEMENT failed at every turn since say the decision to get 717's, arguably since the decision to get 328's, and maybe earlier than my time at Skyway. There is a list of missteps that most know about.

By the time I left Skyway in 2007, it was a complete mess. There was no way the company wouldn't get sold. Anybody taking that sinking ship over was going to destroy it. If TPG buys you and doesn't put money in or get new aircraft right away, you are doomed. Just leaving old Timmy at the helm should have been sign enough. TPG took the cash, sold the rest of the assets, and gave the carcass to Republic. I have a hard time seeing your logic on how the Republic line pilots masterminded this 'coup'.